Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

Obviously there was a movement...a very successful one. Whether it was the result of what it says it was...is still up in the air...and probably will never be resolved.

There's lots of paranoia about Jesus among non-believers. The basic message and how it was interpreted by the different early Christian and Jewish sects is in fact reasonably well known.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Quote:
Obviously there was a movement...a very successful one. Whether it was the result of what it says it was...is still up in the air...and probably will never be resolved.

Personally I believe that there was a wise man with an extraordinary charisma and a head for philosophy, who formed his own beliefs and philosophies based on what he knew of Judaism and Hellenism. A man similar to the Buddha, perhaps.
Then he gained followers and students of his philosophy. Men less deep seeing than himself, who adopted his philosophies and beliefs as best they could.
But so appealing was this new world view that more and more people embraced it even though persecution of those who did so was wide spread. Perhaps that was a motivating factor for people. Perhaps they saw how hard the old religious authorities came down on those who embraced the new and thought that if they tried that hard to stop it there had to be a reason for it. My bet is a lot of people got curious about it for that reason alone.

Just idle speculation, of course. But I think it is pretty safe to say that whatever the events behind the origins of Christianity truly were, it didn't involve divine intervention.

Okay.

"Divine intervention" would surprise me also. But like you said...just idle speculation.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

Quote:
Obviously there was a movement...a very successful one. Whether it was the result of what it says it was...is still up in the air...and probably will never be resolved.

There's lots of paranoia about Jesus among non-believers. The basic message and how it was interpreted by the different early Christian and Jewish sects is in fact reasonably well known.

Yup.

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Quote:

Romeo said to Frank Apisa:-You pointed out earlier that Jesus said he didn't come to overturn the Old T laws.
Okay mate, here's an Old T law for you.-
"He that steals a man and sells him, or if he be found in his hands, he shall surely be put to death " (Exodus 21:16; Deut. 24:7).
Frank Apisa replied: And a penny saved is a penny earned.
But what does that have to do with anything?

It's an Old Testament verse condemning slavery, what do you think it is, a recipe for mulligatawny soup? .. Smile

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Quote:

Cyracuz said: I think it is pretty safe to say that whatever the events behind the origins of Christianity truly were, it didn't involve divine intervention.

Well who was it who blew peoples socks off by doing stuff like this, David Blaine?-

The 37 MIRACLES OF JESUS
"..even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father"-(John 10:38)

Bringing little girl back to life
Bringing widows son back to life
Bringing Lazarus back to life
Stilling the storm
Feeding 4000
Walking on sea
Feeding 5000
Coin in fishes mouth
Withering fig tree
Big catch of fish
Water into wine
Another big fish catch
Healing leper
Healing Centurions servant
Healing Peters mother-in-law
Healing sick at evening
Healing paralysed man
Healing haemorraging woman
Healing two blind men
Healing mans withered hand
Healing Canaanite womans daughter
Healing boy with seizures
Healing blind man
Healing deaf and dumb man
Healing another blind man
Healing crippled woman
Healing man with dropsy
Healing 10 lepers
Restoring a cut-off ear
Healing noblemans sons fever
Healing crippled man at Bethesda
Healing a born-blind man
Casting out demons into pigs
Curing a mute lunatic
Casting out dirty spirit
Curing a possessed blind-dumb man
Appeared to his followers after his death

http://www.bcbsr.com/survey/jmrcls.html

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Even if Jesus did all those things, even if he had some ability to heal others by touch, I would much rather call it a freak of evolution than divine intervention. But in the end it's all just words and stories created by humans. Even evolution theory is just a story that makes sense to us in the context of our modern mindsets.

In India there is supposedly a man who can endure electric currents running through his body that would kill anyone else. He can run enough juice through his body to power an electrical stove and fry eggs. There's no scientific explanation to why he can do what he does. There's no religious explanation either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0hwJiMMd78

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Quote:

Cyracuz said: Even if Jesus did all those things, even if he had some ability to heal others by touch, I would much rather call it a freak of evolution than divine intervention

His arrival was foretold many times centuries before in the Old T, he didn't suddenly mutate out of nowhere.. Smile

And he didn't always heal by touch, sometimes he did it by remote control at a distance (the Centurion's servant) without even seeing the patient.
But other miracles were quite complex, for example once he spit in the dust to make mud pies that he plastered over a blind mans eyes to cure him. (replication of matter).
And when he brought that little girl back to life he had to kick the scoffers and their negative vibes out of the room first, and only let a couple of disciples and her parents stay, because he couldn't manipulate the Matrix we call reality if there were bad vibes around.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Jesus-girl.jpg

I wish a scientist would write a book about the miracles from a scientific standpoint, analysing each one in detail.. Smile

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Romeo Fabulini wrote:

Quote:
Romeo said to Frank Apisa:-You pointed out earlier that Jesus said he didn't come to overturn the Old T laws.
Okay mate, here's an Old T law for you.-
"He that steals a man and sells him, or if he be found in his hands, he shall surely be put to death " (Exodus 21:16; Deut. 24:7).
Frank Apisa replied: And a penny saved is a penny earned.
But what does that have to do with anything?

It's an Old Testament verse condemning slavery, what do you think it is, a recipe for mulligatawny soup? ..

Here is an Old Testament verse actually saying something about slavery...with the "slave" word actually used. It tells us how the god of the Bible thinks about buying and selling and owning human beings as slaves:

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen." Leviticus 25:44ff

No "condemning" slavery mentioned.

So...about that recipe. What were you saying that made sense?

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@Romeo Fabulini,

Quote:

miracles from a scientific standpoint

LOL..........miracles by their very nature is outside the scientic laws/rules of the universe.

If they was not driven by the whim of some god and work within the laws of the universe then they would not be miracles.

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@Frank Apisa,

Quote:

No "condemning" slavery mentioned.

Why would it when it is recommending it? Maybe it was a policy to achieve full employment. Without double-entry book keeping and the mechanical use of fossil fuel, both derivative of Christianity, what would Apisa have done? In the circumstances. No welfare.

We have policies to achieve full employment for the same reason they did. Which is that large scale unemployment is destabilising and that is the last thing the nobles, here and then, would want.

The fastest growing industry in the UK at the moment is investigating the dick-swishing during the permissive society phase. It's really juicy.

This is much the silliest thread on A2K. The discussion in its essence concerns Apisa's dick swishing and there are few things sillier than that.

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@Frank Apisa,

You could even have Israelite slaves if I read that one right. You just had to be nicer to them and don't be an ass about it.
The exemption kind of implies that it's perfectly fine to lord it harshly over any non Israelite slave.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

You could even have Israelite slaves if I read that one right. You just had to be nicer to them and don't be an ass about it.
The exemption kind of implies that it's perfectly fine to lord it harshly over any non Israelite slave.

That is what it sounds like to me also.

And remember...these instructions that it is okay to own slaves and keep them as chattels and sell and buy them...and treat them harshly under certain circumstances...

...were given to the Hebrews while they supposedly were on the journey out of slavery and captivity in Egypt!

One hell of a god that god of the Bible.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Jesus a Hebrew? If his religion explicitly condoned slavery it is perhaps no wonder Jesus didn't condemn it.

1 Reply

@Cyracuz,

Cyracuz wrote:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Jesus a Hebrew? If his religion explicitly condoned slavery it is perhaps no wonder Jesus didn't condemn it.

You are correct that Jesus was a Hebrew. And you are correct that his religion explicitly condoned slavery...and you are correct that perhaps it is no wonder Jesus didn't condemn it.

I HAVE STATED ALL THAT DOZENS OF TIMES MYSELF IN THIS THREAD.

But there are people who consider Jesus to be either GOD...or the son of GOD...and I cannot help but wonder what those people think to be the reason for not condemning slavery.

Jesus worshiped the god of the Bible...who bluntly and clearly stated:

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen." Leviticus 25:44ff

You seem to be having a problem with me about this, Cyracuz. Can you give me some idea of what you disagree with me on my position.

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Quote:

believe the miracles

Believing what was written about these aledged miralces would be akin to believing that Capt. Kirk and Spock are real people who travel the galaxie at above light speed and transport matter in violation of HUP.

Show me a reason to believe independant of the writings...JUST ONE!

1 Reply

@giujohn,

Quote:

akin to believing that Capt. Kirk and Spock are real people who travel the galaxie at above light speed and transport matter in violation of HUP.

No problem at all in considering the Jesus story as a low rent fairy tale but Kirk and Spock not being real!!!!!!!!!!!

How dare you?????????

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@BillRM,

A thousand pardons...

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@Frank Apisa,

Well, if you want to understand what I said using such a twisted way of thinking from your part, then: so be it.

There was, there is, and there will not be something wrong with slavery as long as the slave is treated with dignity as a human being.

This is the what the bible clearly states in the Laws of God, and this is why Jesus did not went against slavery itself but against the abuses.

The biblical narration is also clear with the example of the Children of Israel in Egypt. No problems until a Pharaoh decided to hurt the Children of Israel.

1 Reply

@Frank Apisa,

You must show where in the bible slavery is "explicitly condoned" Lol

(Perhaps the bible you are using is a Chinese pirate version... ha ha ha)

1 Reply

@Romeo Fabulini,

Quote:

He that steals a man and sells him, or if he be found in his hands, he shall surely be put to death " (Exodus 21:16; Deut. 24:7).

It's an Old Testament verse condemning slavery

O Romeo, what you fail to see here is that the passage is referring to a MAN not a slave...which was considered property.

And in answer to the question of this thread...Jesus never condemmed salavery because, HE WASNT A SLAVE, and therefore was not concerened with their plight. He was only concerened with men not property..."give unto Caesar what is Caesar's".

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Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

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