Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

@spendius,

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My problem is that I am altogether free of zeal.

Your "problem", Spendius, is a great deal more involved and complicated than that. But it is entertaining that you think it is that uncomplicated.

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I find zeal to be a bit crass. I do not dislike zealots. I just don't understand the silly fuckers or, to put it another way, I find it difficult to recognize them as fellow human beings.

That sounds like a problem you should discuss with your therapist. Be out-front with him or her...and help will be on its way.

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And Apisa is nothing if not extraordinarily zealous in pursuit of whatever the **** he is in pursuit of.

I am a zealot about golf and my better half. That is about it.

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He's a Puritan par exellence. Calvin would have been proud of him. Like a hunting dog with it's teeth fastened on to a stick with a rag wrapped round it which had been rubbed on a dog fox's hinder parts.

I imagine some of this rather colorful imagery comes from personal experience on your part, Spendius. Almost makes one jealous.

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@Frank Apisa,

See much of the Ryder Cup?

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@izzythepush,

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See much of the Ryder Cup?

Actually, Izzy, I didn't...and I am glad I was unable to do so. You Europeans must be happy with the result...which seemed impossible earlier in the match. But the European players just seem to be more focused than the Americans. Sorta like the Asian players over in the Ladies golf divisions. They just are dominant.

We had a bit of construction going on at our house...and although we farmed it out to a pro, I had to be involved.

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@izzythepush,

I saw most of it. It was super entertainment. Pin-ball with human beings. The result was decided on a series of chance events.

The Medinah clubhouse is a masterpiece of Lego architecture.

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@Mockingclown,

My Illusions are better.

http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large/optical-illusion-beige-swirl-sumit-mehndiratta.jpg

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@Frank Apisa,

I don't think Jesus' agenda was to teach every moral rule under the sun. Slavery is one of those evils man gradually came to realize was wrong. Another way to look at it is that 'slavery' is merely a word to which the connotation "wrong" must be learned to be attached. Slavery still exists, you know. Young girls in some places are sold into sexual slavery, in some cultures parents give their daughters away for arranged marriages, some men perpetuate practices by which girlfriend or wife becomes a psychological slave to him--and to probably a lesser degree, some women excercise behavior designed to produce psychological imprisonment in their lovers. Pimps are said to exercise a 'lower level' form of slavery over their ladies.

So in a more general sense, the principles and moral tenets derived from Jesus' teachings, followed logically, ultimately lead to the understanding that slavery is wrong. My two cents, anyway.

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@porkpiehat,

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Another way to look at it is that 'slavery' is merely a word to which the connotation "wrong" must be learned to be attached.

All words can mean what we want them to mean.

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Slavery still exists, you know. Young girls in some places are sold into sexual slavery, in some cultures parents give their daughters away for arranged marriages, some men perpetuate practices by which girlfriend or wife becomes a psychological slave to him--and to probably a lesser degree, some women excercise behavior designed to produce psychological imprisonment in their lovers. Pimps are said to exercise a 'lower level' form of slavery over their ladies.

Just because it exists does not necessarily mean it is justified.

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So in a more general sense, the principles and moral tenets derived from Jesus' teachings, followed logically, ultimately lead to the understanding that slavery is wrong.

Non sequitur, your conclusion does not follow from your premise.

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@porkpiehat,

Slavery in the Roman Empire and in the Spanish Empire was not associated with racial discrimination.

I refer those interested in the matter to Carl Degler's essay Slavery and the Genesis of American Race Prejudice first published in Comparative Studies in Society and History, vol 2 (1959).

Apisa has personal reasons and won't be interested in the sort of scholarship which demonstrates the foolishness of his question. He is one of a very select band of "golf nuts" who didn't watch the Ryder Cup.

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@porkpiehat,

PPH...thank you for your contribution.

Even accepting everything you said...I am still left with the question: Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

Do you have a supposition on that specifically?

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@Val Killmore,

Thank you for that, Val. I agree with you in your comments to PPH.

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@spendius,

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Slavery in the Roman Empire and in the Spanish Empire was not associated with racial discrimination.

How very interesting...and how very off topic.

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I refer those interested in the matter to Carl Degler's essay Slavery and the Genesis of American Race Prejudice first published in Comparative Studies in Society and History, vol 2 (1959).

Thank you for this, Spendius. My reading time is all taken up right now with books that you probably would not touch...let alone read.

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Apisa has personal reasons and won't be interested in the sort of scholarship which demonstrates the foolishness of his question.

There is nothing "foolish" about my question, but you are welcome to suppose it to be foolish if it makes you feel better about yourself and your life.

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He is one of a very select band of "golf nuts" who didn't watch the Ryder Cup.

I am sure you meant "Ryder Cup matches" (the Ryder Cup itself is rather uninteresting)...and you are correct. I did not watch the Ryder Cup matches.

Does that impact on why you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

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I do my best thinking while running.
So, I'm running last night and, in the misty rain, it hits me: Christ did address slavery, it's just that nobody listened to him.

Luke 6: 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

It's Paul (of course) who screwed everything up. When he sent the slave back to his master, somebody should have said "Paulie, that can't be right. We can't enslave or allow others to be enslaved, our Master said as much,..' as you would have them do unto you' ."

But nobody did.

Joe(so it goes)Nation

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@Joe Nation,

'I ask for so little. Just fear me, love me, do as I say and I will be your slave'

The Labyrinth

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@Joe Nation,

What have you got against slavery Joe in the condition of the world in the 1st century of our era? Or even in 17th century Virginia.

They were property and had value and would be kept in good condition and freedom was no great shakes out in the rat race wilderness. They weren't subject to military service which was a pretty dire business.

Why would Jesus condemn the institution when the average lot of people around Him was such that waking up in the morning was a frightening experience.

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@spendius,

Wow, a true historian who have traveled back in time, and have experienced everything for himself.
Isn't it better for you to shut up than spin bull **** out of your ass?

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@Joe Nation,

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Luke 6: 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

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It's Paul (of course) who screwed everything up. When he sent the slave back to his master,

I think that slaves were excluded from this moral philosophy. The way they interpreted it was "If you found a run away slave you should return it to its master, because that would be loving your neighbor the same way you would want to be loved, if it was your slave that ran away.

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@Mockingclown,

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Isn't it better for you to shut up than spin bull **** out of your ass?

That's not for me to decide. Our viewers can make up their own minds without your help.

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@spendius,

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Isn't it better for you to shut up than spin bull **** out of your ass?

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That's not for me to decide. Our viewers can make up their own minds without your help.

If it were me spendius I would not leave it up to others to decide for me. Even though I do not know what it feels like to have bull **** spun out of my ass, I can only imagine that it would not be something that I would enjoy. Laughing

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@reasoning logic,

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If it were me spendius I would not leave it up to others to decide for me.

Sheesh!! Others decide for themselves not for me.

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Even though I do not know what it feels like to have bull **** spun out of my ass, I can only imagine that it would not be something that I would enjoy.

You seem to have taken the MC's assertion as a fact. So you have let others decide for you.

You advise me that you wouldn't do what I wasn't doing and then you go straight ahead and do it. I think you are a mite confused.

If you could show me what the bullshit was I could at least try to correct myself. I think you must be habituated to talking at people rather than with them.

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@reasoning logic,

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I think that slaves were excluded from this moral philosophy. The way they interpreted it was "If you found a run away slave you should return it to its master, because that would be loving your neighbor the same way you would want to be loved, if it was your slave that ran away.

But RL, leaving the slave of the equation can't be Christian, that's not what Christ said. "Others" has to mean "all others", you cannot find an example where Jesus excluded anyone: prostitutes, poor people, working fishermen, even the dead Lazarus got his attention. I'm sure he was kind to moneychangers and temple merchants when he wasn't whipping them with a rope.
(We all have bad days, right?)

The problem is everybody listened to what he said, Luke wrote it down supposedly, then nobody actually followed what he said. Read the rest of Luke 6 for some more precepts that everybody nods at but nobody does.

Christianity was tried once, for about six weeks, in the summer after Christ disappeared into the sky......then Saul got knocked off his horse onto his ass and that, children, was the end of Christianity.

Joe(Love your enemies.....yeah, right...No, really, he said that.)Nation

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Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

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