Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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I have reread yours and my positions over a few days now Frank...

And I am not going to revamp my perspectives, nor do I believe you don't have valid points

Good. We are in agreement here.

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But it all hits home with which way you associate the word slavery, and that is my position...

Slavery, Civil War era would be condemned by Jesus, Such examples exist in the Old Testament when God the Father led people out of Egypt in Genesis, and Exodus....

Civil War slavery and the slavery of the Old Testament are essentially the same. It is about one human owning another human--something I find abhorrent. I'm having trouble understanding why a decent person such as you does not find it an abomination also.

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Such examples that slavery depicted in the Bible were different are, a man could come into a maid servant to bear children if the wife was unable to bear children, shows he was more about helping, and promoting Good ethics, and preserving seed than about the slavery you think of in terms of beating and whipping, and even owning them as possessions....

SpadeMaster, there is ample evidence that during the slavery of the Civil War era...MANY slave owners "came into maid servants to bear children" whether the wife was barren or not. Slave owners of old...and more recent times, often had sexual relations with their slaves.

The beating and whipping are fairly minor aspects of slavery. The MAJOR aspect is that the slave owner OWNED the slave...could sell the slave; the slave's spouse; the slave's kids and relatives...and the slave had no recourse.

The only reason you are not finding that disgusting and objectionable, SpadeMaster, is because your god did not find it disgusting and objectionable.

Wish you could lift the veil and see that...but you can only see what you are willing to see.

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Like I said before, How many people today would love a servant so much that they (the wife) would allow a man to have sex with a servant to have children for their family to survive? Without the men of today doing it for sexual gratification and using it as adultery? Not many...

If you want to see this as justification for slavery...well, what can I say?

Think about this: Your god found homosexual conduct to be such an abomination, the god decreed the punishment should be death. Yet that same god saw nothing wrong with buying, selling, and keeping slaves.

And you adore and worship that god!

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

Have you taken the time to research and read all the scriptures pertaining to slavery?

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@reasoning logic,

So long as I knew she was going to be treated righteously why would it bother me???

This reminds me of in high school philosophy class, talking about young children being sent to Buddhist monks for life, where the parents know the children would be well taken care of for life...Or keeping them at home, but away from ones who will provide, protect, and follow their paths to their spirituality....

And why we agree or disagree...

So long as the Priest wasn't corrupt, it would not bother me....I probably at first would be sad, but if she was well taken care of, in good hands, was getting taught "faith" and I got to see her...It would not bother me....

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@spendius,

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I daresay a large number of people would wish that might have happened with hindsight.

You seem as though you may be a supporter of such ideas.

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@Frank Apisa,

Because in his time, being a slave was just another job description and also because he accepted the reality that this life is basically a training ground for whatever lies beyond.

In ancient Athens, particularly at public functions, it was only the Scythian slaves who functioned as gendarmes who were armed...

Say WHAT?? I mean, think about that for a couple of seconds. How the hell could there possibly be a situation in which only slaves were armed?? The answer has to be that being an Athenian slave was so far above being a Scythian that it wasn't even worth thinking about.

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@Frank Apisa,

And what if I was to tell you that (in my perspective) the Whole Bible, the Whole thing was written for men and women to discern between good and bad...nothing more, nothing less...All merely tests...to become prudent, but not hate one another, nor God himself....

In other words for us to challenge and see, and do the right or wrong things, such as kill Homosexuals or not? Kill adulteresses, or not, Own slaves, or not etc...and in the end, it is all a test to see who actually cared and Knew how to love thy neighbor as thyself, and who actually knew God above all things...

What would you say to that??

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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I am also poor, and almost very poor... and as a realist, I know for a fact (to me) I am a slave to the rich...and there is not much I can do about it....And it doesn't even bother me really, let them hoard their money, when they die, someone else will be having a splendid time with it!!

If you want to say you are a slave...I guess you are a slave. All you have to do to stop being a slave, is to say you are not a slave. If you were a slave back in Biblical times...or during Civil War Era America...that option was not open to you.

It makes a HUGE difference.

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Again see my second more recent post about ownership...I think it all has to do with what you personally believe slavery is, and means, I do not think that it really was about possessions...more about what was good for people who probably could not provide for themselves or survive back then....

I am not dealing with what YOU think it is...or what I think it is...I AM DEALING with what your god says it is. Your god talks about buying humans; selling humans; bequeathing humans; and keeping them slaves forever. That is what slavery is according to that god. That matters to me...and I think it should matter to you.

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Sorry, maybe I misinterpreted you, I don't understand what you meant by it is a losing Christian Perspective...maybe you can explain what you meant for me to understand better??

Can't help you with this any more than I already have. The "Christian Perspective" is to justify slavery in a discussion of this sort...and try to make it reasonable that the god you good folk worship saw nothing wrong with buying and selling human beings...and that Jesus never bothered to say their was anything wrong with doing that.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

I would say that it is one sick and twisted way of educating people about moral philosophy. It also has lead to the killing of more people than any other reason that I can think of.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

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I think it all lies with the fact you think that slavery of the Bible is the same as slavery that existed here in Civil War era...If you would like, I will say I agree It is wrong, But would you say that if it is different than the slavery you think of...Would you say there is a chance you could be wrong on what you think about the slavery of the Bible is all about???

Once again, I am not talking about what I think slavery was back in Biblical days--or what you think slavery was.

I am willing, for the sake of this discussion, to use what your god says it was.

Your god says that it is permissible to OWN slaves, male and female...to buy them, to sell them, to consider them chattel, to pass them down as inheritance, and to keep them slaves forever.

Are you asking me to call your god wrong? Are you asking me to disregard what your god says?

I think it all lies with the fact you think that slavery of the Bible is the same as slavery that existed here in Civil War era...If you would like, I will say I agree It is wrong, But would you say that if it is different than the slavery you think of...Would you say there is a chance you could be wrong on what you think about the slavery of the Bible is all about???

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@reasoning logic,

I don't know rl. I just said that there must be some who could have put up with it in hindsight.

There are two guys in the pub who have five daughters between them and you wouldn't believe what these ladies have them doing. Laying flags, unblocking drains, pointing the chimney stack, taking the dog to the vets. It's endless. Retired guys too. They never mention the teenage years.

More men I knew than one might expect who had daughters also had early heart problems. Getting daughters off one's hands is an extremely old tradition. They had to invent nunneries because of the number of men getting killed in battle.

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@spendius,

Talk about an attention grabber, I think these women are tired of being slaves.

Spendius how would you handle a situation like this?

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@reasoning logic,

I would put a fuzzy bit over the tits so that nobody could see them who has peeked at your lastest selection from U Tube with lascivious intent.

Pathetic eh girls? A pair of tits gives them a nervous breakdown.

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@XXSpadeMasterXX,

XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

I am also poor, and almost very poor... and as a realist, I know for a fact (to me)
I am a slave to the rich...and there is not much I can do about it....
And it doesn't even bother me really, let them hoard their money, when they die,
someone else will be having a splendid time with it!!

OK, lemme get this straight:
if someone has enuf property, then u r his slave??????
How rich does he need to be, in order to have u as his slave??

If he has that much wealth,
then he can freely sell u or rent o out???? Yes ?

David

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@spendius,

Can you not bring us a video where fuzzy bits don't appear because there are no misogynists supervising.

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@OmSigDAVID,

You're missing the point Dave. It's just that the responsibility has become so diffused that hardly anybody notices it. It isn't an individual thing any longer except possibly in a few cases.

Group slavery if you like. One group feeding off another. Polarised into two political coalitions which actually merge in what is called the middle ground.

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@spendius,

That is not slavery.

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

Well Dave--you seem pretty well fixed so I suppose you would say that.

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@spendius,

David has been fixed? That would explain his passion for guns.

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@izzythepush,

izzythepush wrote:

David has been fixed?
That would explain his passion for guns.

Sometimes I 've wondered about the genesis of that.
I can remember time leading up to my 3rd birthday,
but I can't remember any time that I was less than magnetically fascinated by handguns.
At that age, I daydreamed about them; my eyes locked on the revolvers
of police and of bank guards. I had no access to defensive firepower for the 1st 7 years of my life.

David

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@OmSigDAVID,

Honestly, Your going to challenge my views on honesty of slavery but are mesmerized by guns??? This seems like it is a little bit of an oxymoron...or something like that does it not???

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if someone has enuf property, then u r his slave??????

Is it much different at all??

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How rich does he need to be, in order to have u as his slave??

Honestly, Once someone is poor, and someone is rich...Your a slave to the richer class...Meaning they can do things you can't, get away with things you would not, can avoid things you would be thrown to the wolves for...and if you have a job working for them, your their slave!!

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If he has that much wealth,
then he can freely sell u or rent o out???? Yes ?

If your Boss, of a multimillion dollar corporation said...Your now going to work here, and make this much money and take a pay cut...Is that not exactly what he is doing???

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Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

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