50
   

Why do you suppose Jesus never condemned slavery?

 
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Feb, 2021 12:55 pm
@maxdancona,
Are you inferring that from his saying - 'The poor you have with you always.'?
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Thu 25 Feb, 2021 01:06 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:

Quote:
I did answer it. You didn't bother to read. "Do unto others as you'd have them do unto you." Jesus did condemn slavery.


Quote:
What a mealy-mouthed bunch of bullshit that is. If you can cite a passage where Jesus said, "Slavery is wrong" offer it. If not, accept that Jesus did not condemn slavery.


Why not simply admit that Jesus was a creature of his time and accepted the existence of slavery? If we believe that he counseled "Do unto others..." we might hope that he inspired slave owners to put themselves in the shoes of those they enslaved, which would, I suppose, mean treating them humanely. Frank Apisa simply points out that of all the alleged statements of Jesus collected in the New Testament not one condemnation of slavery can be found. Why is that so difficult to accept?
glitterbag
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2021 01:23 am
@hightor,
Probably because some people have imaginary axes to grind. It doesn't seem to matter if you are or are not a believer.....Jesus was just not perfect enough for some folks.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2021 02:14 am
@glitterbag,
glitterbag wrote:

Probably because some people have imaginary axes to grind. It doesn't seem to matter if you are or are not a believer.....Jesus was just not perfect enough for some folks.


Compare to the mass murderer that was supposed to be his father he was perfect indeed.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2021 04:54 am
@hightor,
Quote:
Frank Apisa simply points out that of all the alleged statements of Jesus collected in the New Testament not one condemnation of slavery can be found. Why is that so difficult to accept?

Jesus was probably focused on the more important issue : Climate Change
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2021 05:17 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Jesus was probably focused on the more important issue : Climate Change

Not even amusing. Not after that horrible tale of the withered fig tree.
Leadfoot
 
  0  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2021 05:27 am
@hightor,
Sorry, that was for Izzy's benefit. He probably won’t get it either.

But nevertheless, the point I was making is true. But that was for Frank's benefit. I can only speak to him indirectly like this since he has banished me to ignore land.

Have a pleasant day.
hightor
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2021 05:34 am
@Leadfoot,
Quote:
Have a pleasant day.


And yourself, as well.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2021 07:19 am
@Leadfoot,
That’s because your message is contradictory and garbled. I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. You talk about the threat of rising sea levels and in the next breath ridicule the very notion of global warming.

I suspect you’re trying to appear enigmatic, but you’re just appearing clueless.
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2021 01:26 pm
@izzythepush,
Me? Talk about rising sea levels? Nah.. must have been someone else. I get pissed that I have to subsidize the property flood insurance of the idiots who build on the beachside.
Oh for those days when I used to drive my Hotrod up & down Dunedin Beach. They would arrest me for trespassing nowadays. **** all those condos they built.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Feb, 2021 01:28 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
I suspect you’re trying to appear enigmatic, but you’re just appearing clueless.

Frank knows exactly what I’m talking about.
Sorry about you.
0 Replies
 
Super-Socrates
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2021 09:08 am
He did. He gave a commandment: "Love your neighbor as yourself."
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2021 09:50 am
@Super-Socrates,
Super-Socrates wrote:

He did. He gave a commandment: "Love your neighbor as yourself."


White Evangelical Christians follow the law. When slavery was the law, White Evangelical Christians supported slavery. Loving your neighbor doesn't mean helping a slave disobey his master or to run away to freedom. That would be against the law.

You can love your neighbor and support slavery as long as slavery is the law of the land.

Just 150 years ago White Evangelical Christians did support slavery.

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2021 09:51 am
@Super-Socrates,
Super-Socrates wrote:

He did. He gave a commandment: "Love your neighbor as yourself."


If he condemned slavery...he would have said, "I condemn slavery."

He didn't because the god he worshiped said there was NOTHING WRONG with slavery. You could own and trade in slaves...according to the god Jesus worshiped.

"Love your neighbor as yourself" is an idiotic attempt as saying that Jesus condemned slavery.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Tue 2 Mar, 2021 11:51 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
He did. He gave a commandment: "Love your neighbor as yourself."

Bullshit. That in no way can be read as a condemnation of slavery.
somebody wrote:
If we believe that he counseled "Do unto others..." we might hope that he inspired slave owners to put themselves in the shoes of those they enslaved, which would, I suppose, mean treating them humanely.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2021 08:36 am
@hightor,
There are 37 Bible verses (some are repeats though) about freedom through Jesus. Slaves are prisoners.

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Freedom,-Through-Jesus-Christ

Jesus quotes Isaiah, "Spirit of the Lord is upon me ... to set the prisoners free." Jesus quotes this in Luke 4 :18-19 even more explicitly "to set free those who are oppressed."
Jesus overturns the temple markets, which are keeping people enslaved in a system of debt and shame.

But Jesus was concerned with spiritual slavery, it was his followers that tackled contract slavery.

https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/why-wrong-say-bible-pro-slavery/

And tackle it they did, until all the world became enslaved. What, you think your nine to five pittance wages of fiat inflatable currency are anything but slavery? You are working for paper and have trouble with food and a roof over your head. And try shopping without a mask. This is the world that atheism built, the Christians were too scattered to stop it, thoughin places like Texas they have opposed some of this. Places which are most Christian have opposed the slavery that is COVID precaution. Show people a "deadly" virus
https://www.bizpacreview.com/2020/08/30/enron-level-scandal-cdc-reports-just-6-of-covid-19-deaths-occurred-in-people-without-comorbidities-966362/
and they'll agree to be vaccinated and carry around a passport that tracks their movements. They'll agree not to have the most basic right of shopping for their own needs.

Jesus opposes slavery, but he says this to make his position perfectly clear.
John 8:32-36
Quote:
"And you shall know the truth, and the truth will make you free." They answered him, " We are Abraham's descendents, we have never been enslaved to anyone. " (So uhhhh what about that whole deal under Pharaoh? Or you time in Babylon? Or....?) Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, anyone who commits sin is a slave to sin."


You can rail all you want about Jesus's supposed indifference to slavery, but you have forgotten that you are a slave. You are given a contract at birth that gets your feet on a sheet of paper and says that you'll work for a nation and agree to be tracked and paid in such a way that you'll probably end up in debt slavery. If not, you'll have wage slavery, compounded by the requirement of insurance you can't afford (this was Obamacare). But none of that matters. You are a slave to sin. This is what Jesus cares about.
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2021 10:57 am
@IronLionZion,
IronLionZion wrote:

Setanta's defense that 'there was no slavery in Jesus area during his life' is irrelevent. Christianity is supposed to be a universal, all-encompassing, and eternal belief system. If Jesus is humanities moral leader, why would only address the moral issues of his time, his place? It seems rather myopic for a all-encompassing and timeless religion.


Could you call Jesus a Christian? He had a following, but Christianity evolved and developed after his death. Would he even recognize Christianity as we think of it today?

Was Jesus a mystic? And if he was a true mystic, why would he even accept a following?

I am not a Christian, and I have never even read or studied the Bible, so I I don't have any answers, only questions.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2021 11:03 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Quote:
...but you have forgotten that you are a slave.

That's not something I would forget.
Quote:
You are a slave to sin.

Do you even realize how totally trite and spectacularly unconvincing your sanctimonious ravings sound to anyone who has made his way in the world without supplicating himself to irrelevant traditions of a long dead culture?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Thu 1 Apr, 2021 12:28 pm
@hightor,
hightor wrote:

Quote:
...but you have forgotten that you are a slave.

That's not something I would forget.
Quote:
You are a slave to sin.

Do you even realize how totally trite and spectacularly unconvincing your sanctimonious ravings sound to anyone who has made his way in the world without supplicating himself to irrelevant traditions of a long dead culture?


Please excuse the wording, but...

...AMEN!
bulmabriefs144
 
  0  
Reply Fri 2 Apr, 2021 08:28 am
@hightor,
Which is probably why you usually downvote them out of sight. Totally because you are considering them trite/sanctimonious and not at all because you can't handle then philosophically.

You are a slave because from day one, you are expected to work for a government that basically treats you as a farm animal.
1. From age 6 onward, you are not allowed to just run around adventuring, you are seen out, you are considered a truant. Your parents have fairly shaky ground for homeschooling, and child protective services can be called to basically kidnap you if your parents go too far out of bounds. Not even abuse, we watched No Reservations, and they were literally gonna take the kid away for spending time at the restaurant doing work. When your parents don't really hold you anymore, you are a slave.
2. You are a slave because the money you have is not backed by anything. You work but your money has no intrinsic value. Gold ultimately is a product of the physical world and of not much concern to those with religion or spirituality, but it can be said to have intrinsic worth. Remember this term for later, that means gold (and silver) are valued on their own, because in this case, that they are exceedingly rare. This is the money America valued most as a source of financial independence from the UK, but we have been sold out bit by bit over the years. Early America had no income tax, until about 1915 (or was it 1919) they used tariffs and other fees to fund the state. And or currency went from intrinsic value, to exchange value (the early greenback dollars called them gold certificates, and promised the bearer would be able to have equal value in gold), to fiat value (fiat means "because I said so" such money is based on our belief and not on actual rare physical items, it is not backed by anything), to fiat debt (where the money no longer is about value but printing on demand whenever someone takes out a loan), to digitally backed currency, to digital only currency. By stages, your freedom is sold away, and by the time you get to the last, you are talking about your every expense geolocated and tagged for taxation. This is slavery even if you think you are rich.
3. The human being is regarded by the secular community not as a separate spiritual creation from the animals, with a different destiny, and with intrinsic worth (told you I'd get back to that) but as an evolved animal like the other ones of the Cenozoic era. If humans have intrinsic worth, it means God values us on our own, not because of rarity (though driving across farmland you could make this case) but because of our being made in God's image and because of God's love for us. If this is the case, then we are humans, creatures worthy of being treated with inherent rights and respect. But if we see the secular mindset, then humans are a sort of farm animal that has populated out of control, and deserve to be branded like with cattle or chipped like we already do with cats and dogs, and who deserve to be culled like any other herd. The notion that humans are nothing special is a dangerous one, not just to the avoiding of human enslavement and mistreatment, but if we say we "love" our pets, and treat wach other like this, how are we likely to mistreat ourpets?
4. Lastly, the slavery to sin. Most of this you will not understand, but sin at its core is separation from others and from God. The easiest example is addiction. If the wages of sin are death, this is what sin looks like as addiction. You are a happy kid who loves his parents, and has no addictions to speak of. At 17, you take up smoking. Your dad and mom, don't like what you're doing to yourself. You get in an angry argument and storm out. Separation. You smoke regularly, now living away from your parents, and holding a regular job to cover the rising bill of addiction. You have to take regular smoke breaks, being further separated from coworkers. Ultimately, as you get old, you are enslaved to your sin. You want me to tell you about being chained to a ventilator, having your neck plugged out? Then you eventually die to your sin. You usually die alone here, unless you are lucky enough to have family that cares despite caring first about your addiction. You die in separation. This is enslavement to your desires, this is what it looks like. This is not to say Christianity is about being a rigid stick in the mud. "I can do anything, but I will not be ruled by anything." As long as you value things of the physical world as things to be pursued, you are governed by them. If you allow God to govern you, then even an atheist will admit you are free (because by logic, that would mean Jesus is right about service of God being perfect freedom if there is no God). And a theist would agree, because serving God is turning your back on the addictions of the physical world.

You are a slave. Most religion is about becoming free.
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.05 seconds on 04/12/2021 at 10:48:32