6
   

Does LIFE Matter? Does Anyone Care??

 
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2011 09:47 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
For the most part, I've always found OmSigDAVID to portrait himself as a hedonistic sociopath. From that angle his (total) posts make perfect sense....as then does the subject of this thread.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2011 10:27 pm
@vikorr,
David proudly describes himself as a hedonist.

I think hedonism is depraved, but doubt David actually is a hedonist.

You judge him to be a sociopath. Perhaps you would offer a justification for this accusation.

As Inigo Montoya once said "I do not think it (sociopath) means what you think it means."
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2011 11:04 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
David proudly describes himself as a hedonist.

I think hedonism is depraved, but doubt David actually is a hedonist.
To me, GOOD is defined as the creation of happiness.





David
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2011 11:05 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Hedonism is the pursuit of pleasure, not happiness.
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2011 11:06 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Hedonism is the pursuit of pleasure, not happiness.
Do u see value in distinguishing one from the other ?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2011 11:31 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
Obviously yes.
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2011 11:31 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
You judge him to be a sociopath. Perhaps you would offer a justification for this accusation.
I personally thought this aspect of David to be utterly obvious.

Quote:
As Inigo Montoya once said "I do not think it (sociopath) means what you think it means."
Considering that psychologists have trouble agreeing on terminology between : psychopath, sociopath, anti-social personality disorder (and there was another term out there too) - and whether they are one and the same, or different aspects of a similar thing - I wouldn't be surprised that people have different understandings.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Nov, 2011 11:37 pm
@vikorr,
Sad
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 05:06 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Bemusing. 'Don't judge says Finn', then 'Finn Judges'.

But it is bemusing moreso, not because of the above contradiction (which isn't much of one in my view of the value of judgements), but because you read my first post inaccurately on two counts. First being what it said, and second (based on the first inaccuracy) being the nature of 'judgement' you believe behind what you believe was said - which is ascribed due to your generalisation (ie generalised judgement) of other peoples motives Smile

Do you understand the common thread that runs through psychologists view of psychopathy, aspd, sociopathy? That being that the people who have this 'condition' don't experience empathy as 'normal' people understand it? ...one of the reasons why labelling it a negative judgement is ummm..bemusing...because such a thing just is, while you made it into a negative Smile
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 07:09 pm
@vikorr,
I care about some people; not about others.
If that be sociopathy: let us make the most of it.





David
0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Nov, 2011 08:31 pm
@thack45,
thack45 wrote:

No. Human life is not important. It is however important to humans.


as it should be
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 05:44 pm
@vikorr,
vikorr wrote:

Bemusing. 'Don't judge says Finn', then 'Finn Judges'.

Bemusing that you are bemused. I pointed out you were judging and asked for justification. You're more than free to judge as far as I'm concerned. I do it all the time. You simply will seem more intelligent if you offer some back up for your judgment.

But it is bemusing moreso, not because of the above contradiction (which isn't much of one in my view of the value of judgements), but because you read my first post inaccurately on two counts. First being what it said, and second (based on the first inaccuracy) being the nature of 'judgement' you believe behind what you believe was said - which is ascribed due to your generalisation (ie generalised judgement) of other peoples motives Smile

Huh?

Do you understand the common thread that runs through psychologists view of psychopathy, aspd, sociopathy? That being that the people who have this 'condition' don't experience empathy as 'normal' people understand it? ...one of the reasons why labelling it a negative judgement is ummm..bemusing...because such a thing just is, while you made it into a negative Smile

So you believe "sociopath" to be neutral or even positive? Interesting.

In any case, you've still not offered any evidence that David is not as empathetic as "normal" people.


Smile
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Nov, 2011 08:40 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Your life matters, as do the lives of friends and families.

At any given moment the lives of strangers may matter to you
and if even the most subtle of personal connections are made you are likely to care.

In general though? Not so much.
If life matters, if people CARE about it,
then Y r there so few people who have enuf interest
to join the International Association of Near Death studies
to ascertain whether conscious life endures?? Very few people have joined it.

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
"Life After Death" is not "Life" unless there are people walking
around who know they lived before and died.
My surgeon told me that I died 2wice during surgery.
I know that I lived b4 those deaths.



Finn dAbuzz wrote:
I would love to know right now that my sense of identity - "I" will exist after I die, but this not to be,
and "Near Death" studies will not provide me with that information.
Tho I don 't PERSONALLY remember being in a state of death,
I 've met others who DO remember that,
and whose medical doctors support their assertions thereof.
My own experience with out-of-body experiences while awake
gives me credence in the experiences of others who left their human bodies.




Finn dAbuzz wrote:
"Near Death" is not "Death." "Death" is when you don't come back,
I deem that definition to be born of emotion, arbitrary n not well reasoned.
Before I ever heard of any post death experiences,
I grew up with the notion (shared by everyone I ever knew at the time)
that death was no heartbeat n no respiration for a while.
I see no reason to change that idea.
No good comes from arbitrarily re-defining it that it must be permanent.






Finn dAbuzz wrote:
and a "Near Death" experience may be nothing more than a hallucination
brought on by your brain being deprived of oxygen.
As I have already pointed out,
people have been disinherited for bad-mouthing decedents
in surgery, addressing family members out in the waiting room.
The decedents have seen n heard that, while in a state of death.
After returning to life, thay went to their estate lawyers
and disinherited those who defamed them.





Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Unfortunately, for me, I retain a tiny bit of my childhood conditioning by Pastor Steinke of the Grace Luthern Church in NY. One of the most joyful people I have ever met, but when he got behind the pulpit the fire and brimstone flew.

In a tiny corner of my brain remains an irrational fear of hell.
While it surfaces at only the rarest of times, I have a misgiving that
it will do so when I'm near death.
Think happy thawts.
If u don 't commit suicide n if u r not an atheist, then u will probably be OK,
if u don't run wild killing a lot of folks without a good reason, etc.


Finn dAbuzz wrote:
99.9% of the time my thinking about death is that it's nothing to fear since either I will "wake up" in some representation of heaven or the lights will simply be switched of for all eternity. Either way there's nothing to fear...but that's my rational adult mind doing the thinking. 0.1% of the time the kid staring in terror at Pastor Steinke thundering on about damnation, comes to the fore and I tremble.
There is an account in the literature of a clergyman like that who died of a heart attack.
When he returned to life, he said (approximately):
"I was surprized that God was not interested in my theology."

He said that he moderated his threats to his congregation.





David
0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Nov, 2011 07:19 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Bemusing that you are bemused. I pointed out you were judging and asked for justification. You're more than free to judge as far as I'm concerned. I do it all the time. You simply will seem more intelligent if you offer some back up for your judgment.

Why would I want to seem ‘more intelligent’? That is purely something of others. I know who I am. Most things I'm happy to back up, as you know - but not this one, as the time it would take to search David’s posts for all the clues simply isn’t worth it.
Quote:
So you believe "sociopath" to be neutral or even positive? Interesting.

It’s believed that 2-3% of the population are sociopaths (meaning it is most likely that you and I will have known plenty of sociopaths that we like).

Psychologist think that despite the ‘problem’ they often see interactions more clearly than those with a vested emotional interest. Psychologists believe they may also be better at business, as they have the ability to make the hard decisions.

There are also places where sociopaths excel – such as in wars, and other occupations requiring emotional distance. The ‘condition’ of course, has it’s down side, and if the persons childhood is harsh, then it can turn to something darker.

It has it's good and bad points - but most people only ever focus on the bad points.

As a side note - a number of serial killers were thought to be very charming people (before they were discovered). Others have been dark and disturbed. (but then again - I don't recall what was said in relation to the number of serial killers being sociopaths (ie whether they all were, or it was only a percentage of them).
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Fri 25 Nov, 2011 12:14 am
@vikorr,
I don't, at all, know that you are happy to back up your judgments. If you don't want to spend the time to do so with your judgment of David, that's fine, but don't expect anyone (least of all me) to take it seriously.

If you don't care whether or not you come across as intelligent, that's perfectly fine as well. I guess it means you also don't care that you come across as very stupid.

If 3% (max) of the population are sociopaths it hardly means that I have met plenty of sociopaths that I like. That's really a ridiculous assertion.

Again, if you don't think that calling someone a sociopath is an insult, what can I do to change your mind? I will assure you, though, that the vast majority of people you call sociopaths (including actual sociopaths) will consider it to be an insult.

Lacking common empathy is probably a positive trait for assassins, but there are not a whole lot of assassins at work in the world.

Live a few more years and you will appreciate that this sort of "in your face" blather, while making you feel cool, simply reveals you to be a young fool.

vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2011 01:55 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
I don't, at all, know that you are happy to back up your judgments. If you don't want to spend the time to do so with your judgment of David, that's fine, but don't expect anyone (least of all me) to take it seriously.
You can take it how you want.

Quote:
Again, if you don't think that calling someone a sociopath is an insult, what can I do to change your mind? I will assure you, though, that the vast majority of people you call sociopaths (including actual sociopaths) will consider it to be an insult.
Oh I realise that it will come across as an insult to most people - though I did judge correctly Davids reaction to it, which was if you notice, that of someone who barely cared. It is you that has that problem with it.

Quote:
Live a few more years and you will appreciate that this sort of "in your face" blather, while making you feel cool, simply reveals you to be a young fool.
See above. You do notice that you are the one getting heated here, yes? Not David?

I think you'll find that I have always treated David with respect over many years (despite rarely agreeing with him), and he knows that. It's unlikely that anything will change about my treatment of him either. How do you explain this contradiction (that I don't treat him as an 'evil' person, despite believing he is a sociopath - which is one among many traits btw)?

And Why would I feel cool by making such a statement? Have my words portraited such, or are your condescending judgements generated by your own negative feelings rather than the writing in front of you?

Quote:
If 3% (max) of the population are sociopaths it hardly means that I have met plenty of sociopaths that I like. That's really a ridiculous assertion.
How many people have you 'met' if your lifetime? And talked long enough to get a guage on whether or not you like them : 10,000 - 20,000? That would make somewhere between 400-600 sociopaths that you've met. I've little doubt that you liked some of them, because the condition does not always result in bad people. It's not ridiculous, it's an understanding of the basic condition, combined with statistics.


Quote:
If you don't care whether or not you come across as intelligent, that's perfectly fine as well. I guess it means you also don't care that you come across as very stupid.
If purely a statement in forum - no. Very few 'like' being treated like an idiot, while many don't care if they are perceived as intelligent or not - there's a difference. And of course doesn't mean there aren't consequences to behaviour or statements made...this conversation being a perfect example.

Alright, this conversation over this aspect of the thread appears to have reached it's natural end for me.
0 Replies
 
Cyracuz
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2011 08:46 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
David

In the initial post, are you talking about life? Or your life?
Faced with the choice, some people would rather die than kill. I don't share the disposition, but then again, I do not value an imagined afterlife more than I value the experience of this life...
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2011 11:13 pm
@Cyracuz,
Cyracuz wrote:

David

In the initial post, are you talking about life? Or your life?
It addressed the fullness of human life; nothing special to myself.



Cyracuz wrote:
Faced with the choice, some people would rather die than kill.
Some woud; I fail to understand their thinking.




Cyracuz wrote:
I don't share the disposition,
I also reject it.



Cyracuz wrote:
but then again, I do not value an imagined afterlife more than I value the experience of this life...
There is no dichotomy. U can have both; u already have.





David
0 Replies
 
HesDeltanCaptain
 
  1  
Reply Thu 13 Aug, 2015 02:37 pm
@OmSigDAVID,
People against the death penalty piss me off. Where was all your concern when we could have locked up the mentally ill person instead of hoped they stay on their meds, didn't, and went out and killed people? Where was your great respect for human life when your government starting dropping bombs on civilians to keep you gas prices low? Where was your huge concern for life when you said abortion's ok?

Should execute all criminals where violence against other people is involved. Simple assault or anything else. You knew it was illegal, if you coudln't control yourself why should we let you walk around free and alive when it's a fair chance you loose control again and take something that isn't your's to take?

Drunk driving in particular should result in execution. No one can claim in the US they didn't know it was illegal and why. If you drive drunk regardless you're displaying a callous disregard for other people's lives and should forfeit your's if you take one or more. SOB years back crashed into a church bus killing 28 children and a few adults. Only got 11 years. Shoulda been shot on the side of the road by arriving officers.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

How can we be sure? - Discussion by Raishu-tensho
Proof of nonexistence of free will - Discussion by litewave
morals and ethics, how are they different? - Question by existential potential
Destroy My Belief System, Please! - Discussion by Thomas
Star Wars in Philosophy. - Discussion by Logicus
Existence of Everything. - Discussion by Logicus
Is it better to be feared or loved? - Discussion by Black King
 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 02/24/2021 at 06:04:58