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Terror in Norway: Shootout, bomb explosions kill 11

 
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 07:36 pm
@gungasnake,
Oh. she was asking for it in the other 4500 cases? (900 per year for 5 years)
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 07:42 pm
@parados,
Quote:
Oh. she was asking for it in the other 4500 cases? (900 per year for 5 years)


I was asked for a pure guess and provided one. The only thing anybody knows for sure is that the 83 Norwegian girls and women raped due to the activities of the ruling Libtard party were definitely not asking for it.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 09:42 pm
@McTag,
I'm not going to spend a lot of keystrokes reiterating that I agree that the "journalists" who almost immediately speculated in public that Islamists were behind the Norwegian attacks were, at the very least, unprofessional.

If the Sun ran with the headline "Al-Qaeda" Massacre, its journalistic standards must be very low. I'm not familiar with the paper but we have tabloids over here as well. They rarely stir up contraversy because I don't think many people take them all that seriously.

While Brooker flirts with it, even he doesn't go as far as izzy and accuse the premature ejaculators in the British media of evil intent.

I don't expect you to follow the US media closely, but if you do, did you find it equally objectionable when American journalists (no less reknowned than Paul Krugman) immediately speculated that the recent Arizona massacre was the work of a right-wing extremist and blamed people like Sarah Palin for insitigating it?

Based on the thrust of Brooker's column I would expect him to have sneered at Krugman & Company. I strongly suspect, however, that I am wrong and he actually joined them in their braying.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 09:45 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Seems reasonable although it seems that the sister is less 'serious" if the story had to share space with a photo of Amy Winehouse
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 09:57 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:


It would have saved thousands of lives, Iraqi civilians and countless Western troops. It would have stopped Al Qaida building up a power base in Iraq.

By "it" I assume you mean the assassination of George W Bush. So while you argue that Brooker was simply being innocently witty, you, on the other hand, seriously lament that no one with experience was around to deal with W.

Brooker is a light hearted columnist, which is why he appears in so many comedy shows, but his humour is a bit like concorde from your point of view.

Light hearted? I'd hate to meet someone you thought was darkly acerbic.

You know very little about British papers...

Did I not admit that?

So you're telling me that The Guardian has never expressed disdain for The Sun, nor The Sun for The Guardian, and that they don't compete for ad space?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 10:54 pm
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:


Are you aware that there are different time zones. I can't respond when I'm asleep. Islamic extremism is a big problem, something we're all aware of. You are in complete denial about the problems of far right extremists though. They is a result of your right wing media whipping up the problem of Islamic terrorism out of all proportion. Narrow minded bigots like Gonga just transfer their hate from Blacks to Moslems. Look around you Finnbar, you'll see your fellow travellers are KKK like the docker's omelette. Do you really want to be associated with such vermin?


Which is it izzy?

Islamic extremisim is a big problem or the US "right wing media" has whipped up Islamic terrorisim "out of all proportion?"

What are its proper proportions, and please explain to me how they are of equal or less dimension than the "problems of far right extremists."

When was the last event, similar to the massacre in Norway, due to far right extremists?

How does the frequency of Islamist terrorist attacks compare to that of far right extremist attacks?

How many people, over the last 10 years, in the US, UK, Spain, Bali, India, Denmark, Italy and Holland (or for that matter the whole world) been injured or killed by Islamist terrorists, and how many by far right extremists?

Have you ever made the argument that the West has, to one extent or another, brought the violent wrath of Muslim extremists on its own head because of its behaviors? If so, I don't know how you can share Brooker's disdain for anyone who might have said "Yes, Brievik's actions were terrible but..."

Individually, there is no scale that can tell us that Brievik was any more or less evil and insane that Atta simply because of the source of their motivation. A madman who slaughters people because he believes it is what God wishes is no more or less evil than one who does do because he thinks members of a political party have betrayed his country.

There are, however, very clear ways to measure the scope of the threat posed by individuals who share the motivation of Brievik or Atta.

Bees and wasps annually kill more than 50 times the number of people killed by sharks. Clearly, bees and wasps present a greater threat to humans than sharks. You are very much like the person who, because he loaths and fears sharks more than he does bees and wasps, considers the former the greater threat.

I don't, at all, deny that far right extremists can be a deadly threat to their fellow humans. Certainly they can, just as far left extremists can be. The fact of the matter, though, is that Islamist extremists present a greater threat to the world than any other extremist group, and when there is a terribly violent tragedy like the one that ocurred in Norway, it's a damned good bet that Islamists were behind it.

When you bet on the favorite you will not always win, but there are very really reasons they are the favorites.

What I have a real problem with are folks like you who either because of a misguided sympathy for Islamists or an intense loathing for those on the far right insist upon equating the actual threat presented by the two groups.

I have a bigger problem with the hypocrisy that is expressed in your condemnation of those who you feel are trying to blame all Muslims for the acts of Muslim extremists while you insist that everyone you consider to be right wing (even me for example) are complicit in the violent acts of right wing extremists.

And you have the nerve to condemn and lecture anyone for spewing or preaching hatred while you swim in it.

But, I understand izzy, the right wing deserves the hatred of people like you who know what is right and what is wrong.
Ceili
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Jul, 2011 11:46 pm
I think most extremists are beyond repugnant. I don't care if it's religious or political. While I can sympathize a cause, I deplore violence.
I hold a special hatred for people like the Norway bomber. I find it ironic that this man cited many of my heros as his own. I find it hard to believe many of their messages could be lost him, considering the privileges he enjoyed, in a society that had made him rich enough to finance his evil ways. He was well educated, never knew famine, war or disease. He's never know a day of hardship. He lived in a peaceful place and yet he found a reason to inflict pain and suffering on so many.
While much of the above could describe Osama Bin Ladin et al, I can't for the life of me understand why someone in England, Norway, Canada or the US could possibly be bothered with far right fundamentalist thinking. I don't understand people who go looking for a fight. I can't for the life of me understand why a person who lived a life like his would have so much to hate. I can't understand why people who live a gilded life compared to so many in the world would have time to burn a cross on someone's lawn or publish a 1500 page manifesto, or bomb and shoot at people who aren't the enemy. It blows my mind.
This is why I hold an especially hateful position on extremism, or most specifically white extremism. I hope that clarifies my position.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 03:57 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Islamic extremisim is a big problem or the US "right wing media" has whipped up Islamic terrorisim "out of all proportion?"


Terrorist attacks like 9/11 and 7/7 show that Islamic terrorism is a problem. It's not as big a problem as your media likes to make out. The 9/11 attacks were not that hard to perpetrate, and their success is down to the inadequacies of airport security than anything else.

Ever since the end of the cold war the defence industry has been looking for another bogeyman to justify all the money that gets spent on it. Unfortunately by ratcheting up the danger of Islamic terrorism, they've resurrected the danger of the far right

Quote:
When was the last event, similar to the massacre in Norway, due to far right extremists? How does the frequency of Islamist terrorist attacks compare to that of far right extremist attacks?


Brick Lane on UK soil, but it all intends what you mean by far right. Islamic Terrorist groups in Moslem Countries are exactly the same as the far right. They fear their country is being taken away from them by 'Hordes of Crusaders.' At the end of the day it works, the defence industry is doing better than ever, and people like yourself unwittingly spout their propaganda for them.

This is a report on Brick Lane.

1999: Dozens injured in Soho nail bomb
Two people have been killed and at least 30 injured in the third nail-bomb attack in London in two weeks.
The bomb went off in the Admiral Duncan pub, in Soho, just after 1830. The bar was packed with drinkers at the start of the bank holiday weekend.

The pub is in Old Compton Street, at the heart of London's gay community. Police are linking this bomb with last Saturday's explosion in Brick Lane and the previous week's attack in Brixton, which injured 39 people.

Eyewitnesses spoke of a "huge bang" as the bomb went off, hurling glass and debris into the street. Jason Everton had just left his job in nearby Frith Street to buy a sandwich, when he saw the front of the pub "coming straight off".

"There were people running out, all covered in dust and bruises and cuts. It was quite horrific," he said.

'War scene'

Jean Pierre Trevor, who was working in an editing suite in offices just behind the pub, was blown three feet by the force of the blast. He went to offer his help, and found the street outside "like a war scene".

"There were people lying everywhere," he said. "Those who were around were putting thermal blankets over them. A lot of them had severe burns, so we were putting water and ice cubes on their skin."

Nearby Soho Square, usually packed with office workers, became a makeshift treatment centre for the injured.

The police cleared nearby streets amid fears that there might be a second device.

'Despicable'

At a press conference at Scotland Yard shortly after the attack, Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Paul Condon condemned the attack as "despicable" and "cowardly", and appealed for help in catching those responsible.

A call to the BBC two hours after the attack attributed the bomb to the "White Wolves". Four different right-wing extremist groups have admitted planting the Brixton bomb, but police say they have no specific corroboration that any particular group are behind the attack.


Finally just to point out the difference between Charlie Brooker and the ravening demagogue that is Beck, here is Mr. Brooker. Watch it, you may learn something about manipulation.

parados
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 06:03 am
@gungasnake,
I think we know for certain that this statement is BS
gungasnake wrote:


In other words, the ruling libtard party had created an island paradise for the libtard party youth movement while simultaneously importing sufficient numbers of muslim immigrants to bring about 86 forcible rapes amongst the peasantry over the past year in a country in which forcible rape would otherwise not exist....
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 06:20 am
@parados,
It's all bs, Gonga's use of terms like 'peasant,' show he hasn't got a clue about what is going on in Western Europe.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 06:44 am
Far right domestic terrorism on par with foreign threat, experts say

(The whole article is worth reading but I thought too long to post. The following is from the bottom)

Quote:
Ackerman said nationally, law enforcement has been focused since the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon in 2001 on the threat of Islamic terrorism, even as the threat from domestic anti-government groups has been growing.

"Some people believe we have taken our eye off the ball when it comes to domestic right-wing extremists," he said.

And some efforts to combat the problem have been controversial. For instance, the Department of Homeland Security was forced to apologize in 2009 after a report surfaced warning law enforcement of the possibility that veterans returning from combat were susceptible to being radicalized by right-wing groups.

State police also seem more focused on the Islamic threat, Ackerman said.
State police agencies polled by START researchers in 2008 overwhelmingly reported the presence of potentially dangerous extremist groups across the political spectrum, with nearly 90% saying neo-Nazi, skinhead, militia groups and other right-wing groups were present in their state. About two-thirds reported radical Islamic groups.

But they tended to rank Islamic terrorists as the greatest concern ahead of right-wing groups in terms of the threat posed, LaFree said.

"I think there's a little bit of perceptual bias there," he said.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 06:51 am
@revelette,
When Bush started his term in office, Al Qaida were viewed as being not that significant. Some of the things Beck says would be illegal over here, not only do we have strict laws about bias in broadcasting, but Freedom of Speech does not cover spreading Hate.
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 07:00 am
@izzythepush,
Oh, well, Bush and others may have viewed AQ as not significant, but they shouldn't have. AQ is significant and it does no good to pretend they are not. They were able to kill more than 3000 in a single day and they would like to do it again. It does not have to be all one way or the other way in looking at things.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 07:36 am
@revelette,
I never said that, but I would imagine that the rise in the far right across Europe and America, may have something to do with the way Islam has been demonised.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 07:55 am
@Ceili,
Quote:
I hold a special hatred for people like the Norway bomber.


The situation in several European countries including Norway is untenable and if it hadn't been this guy you're reading about, it would have been something else just as bad. It figures to get uglier before it ever gets prettier.

You're claiming to hate the symptom and not the disease.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 07:59 am
@gungasnake,
gungasnake wrote:

Quote:
... The ads pleaded for "Pistols, Rifles, Revolvers, Shotguns and Binoculars from American civilians who wish to answer the call and aid in defense of British homes....


Just about everybody in the US whose family has any history of owning firearms remembers this one. They rounded up massive numbers of hunting rifles and every sort of firearm and shipped them all over to England because the English had tried to be PC by ending private ownership of arms and then the British went back to the same stupid **** the day the war ended. Too stupid to experience shame or something like that...
The British have an intense fear of revolution, and that is why they so loved Ireland, because that is where they quartered their army, and so forced a captive population to supply their troops and feed them as well out of their poverty...Shame had nothing to do with it, and not stupidity either... It was all about the people with the loot fearing the common man...
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 08:05 am
@Ceili,
Ceili wrote:

I think most extremists are beyond repugnant. I don't care if it's religious or political. While I can sympathize a cause, I deplore violence.
I hold a special hatred for people like the Norway bomber. I find it ironic that this man cited many of my heros as his own. I find it hard to believe many of their messages could be lost him, considering the privileges he enjoyed, in a society that had made him rich enough to finance his evil ways. He was well educated, never knew famine, war or disease. He's never know a day of hardship. He lived in a peaceful place and yet he found a reason to inflict pain and suffering on so many.
While much of the above could describe Osama Bin Ladin et al, I can't for the life of me understand why someone in England, Norway, Canada or the US could possibly be bothered with far right fundamentalist thinking. I don't understand people who go looking for a fight. I can't for the life of me understand why a person who lived a life like his would have so much to hate. I can't understand why people who live a gilded life compared to so many in the world would have time to burn a cross on someone's lawn or publish a 1500 page manifesto, or bomb and shoot at people who aren't the enemy. It blows my mind.
This is why I hold an especially hateful position on extremism, or most specifically white extremism. I hope that clarifies my position.
Hate grows out of fear and fear is a natural condition and emotion for mankind... It is also maniplated for gain of one sort or another, and then there are the paranoid whose fear and hate know no bounds...
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 08:09 am
@Fido,
Thanks for the potted history lesson. We don't all live in castles you know. We don't want guns in our society, if we want to change the government we have elections. It's not just the rich and powerful who want strict controls on guns.

The fear of revolution is more to do with the puritanical dictatorship of Oliver Cromwell than anything else.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 09:04 am
@Ceili,
Quote:
This is why I hold an especially hateful position on extremism, or most specifically white extremism. I hope that clarifies my position.


That's the very extremism that has led the US to be the number one terrorist nation on the planet, Ceili. Just count up the dead, the maimed and you'll quickly see that all the rest combined can't hold a candle to what the US has done.
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Jul, 2011 09:08 am
@revelette,
Quote:
They were able to kill more than 3000 in a single day


Pikers, mere pikers, compared to the US of A, Rev.
0 Replies
 
 

 
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