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Are atheists being more illogical than agnostics?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Sun 5 Jan, 2014 08:24 am
@izzythepush,
izzythepush wrote:

My puzzle book uses different categories like extreme, but I can get to the end OK.


Yeah...that site you gave me has "extreme"...and even "outrageous" categories.

I don't even attempt those. I only get one out of ten of the "hard."
izzythepush
 
  1  
Sun 5 Jan, 2014 08:29 am
@Frank Apisa,
I find that certain patterns just come to you, and you think about numbers differently.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Sun 5 Jan, 2014 09:57 am
@Frank Apisa,
Have you figured out how to work them on a tablet?
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sun 5 Jan, 2014 10:07 am
@Romeo Fabulini,
Romeo Fabulini wrote:

This verse seems to indicate that aliens made contact thousands of years ago-
"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown" (Genesis 6:4)

Nobody has ever been able to translate the word 'Nephilim' which could mean "giants"...."the violent ones"...."the fallen ones"..."sons of God", in other words powerful beings who had descended to earth to interbreed with human women to boost the quality of human DNA and the gene pool.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim

So, returning to this threads title "Are atheists being more illogical than agnostics?" the answer would seem to be "Yes" because whereas atheists would dismiss the above speculation out of hand, agnostics would at least remain neutral and non-committal about it..Smile

I'm as agnostic as they get about gods, but IMNSHO a better argument can be made that the Nephilim, which bears striking resemblance with Greek semi-gods like Perseus or Heracles and with Summerian/Babylonian/Assyrian mythological characters, are a Greek or Babylonian import.

Another, more far-fetched theory is that they refer to a very ancient and deformed memory of Neanderthal, who was stronger than Sapiens (if not necessarily taller), and coexisted with Sapiens for a long time in what became Canaan.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Sun 5 Jan, 2014 10:21 am
@timur,
The entire scientific 'project' is an off-shot of philosophy and embodies a particular, rationalist-empirical philosophic family. Moreover, there is not a single scientific theory which doesn't have at core its own philosophy, called paradigm.
timur
 
  1  
Sun 5 Jan, 2014 10:28 am
@Olivier5,
Yes and it seems to go over their heads..
Olivier5
 
  1  
Mon 6 Jan, 2014 06:28 am
@timur,
Indeed, even the (stupid) idea that science and philosophy are polar opposites is a tired and trite philisophical cliché.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 6 Jan, 2014 02:23 pm
This cheered me up.

Quote:
When Wolf Blitzer asked Rebecca Vitsmun on CNN last May if she thanked “the Lord” that she and her family survived the tornado that had just ripped through Moore, Okla., she informed him that she is “actually an atheist.”

Then comedian Doug Stanhope answered her prayers.

With the help of 4,475 other non-believers, Stanhope launched the “Athiests Unite” Indiegogo crowdfunding campaign shortly after seeing the proud atheist living in the grief-stricken area of the Bible Belt, and ended up raising $125,760 within two months to help Vitsmun’s family rebuild their home that was completely destroyed in the storm.

“Saying ‘I’m an atheist’ in Oklahoma is like screaming ‘Jihad’ at airport security. That took some nuts,” Stanhope explains in a new video (above) addressing his successful fundraiser. ”

While many crowdfunding campaigns on Indiegogo rely on “perks” in exchange for a donation, Stanhope’s got absolutely nothing in return other than proving — as Stanhope wrote in his pitch — “you don’t need to believe in a god to have human compassion.”

Still, Stanhope took advantage of the perk system to poke more fun at Christianity, promising a “Get Out of Hell Free Card” to anyone donating $50, a “lucky break” to those donating $100, a “Phone Call from God” for $125, a “Guardian Angel,” and even “The Holy Grail” to someone willing to pony up $10,000.

Nobody claimed the Holy Grail, but one person was willing to part with $2,500 in exchange for “First Choice for Reincarnation,” because ”all those eagle & dolphin spots go fast.”

Stanhope says he did not launch the charitable campaign because he felt sympathy for Vitsmun, but did so “simply to be a prick to her Okie-Christian neighbors.”

For the record, Vitsmun was much more tolerant toward her neighbors’ faith, and told Blitzer at the time of the interview, “I don’t blame anybody for thanking the Lord.”



http://www.thewrap.com/atheist-oklahoma-indiegogo-crowdfund-doug-stanhope
rosborne979
 
  1  
Mon 6 Jan, 2014 03:14 pm
@izzythepush,
Good for her. It probably does take some guts to say that in Oklahoma.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Mon 6 Jan, 2014 04:16 pm
@rosborne979,
If you follow the link there's a video of Doug Stanhope telling all about it. He said he wanted to see the faces on all the godbotherers when she got her cheque.
0 Replies
 
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Mon 6 Jan, 2014 10:17 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Ahhh...still not calm, I see.

you don't see very well then.

Quote:
Well...when you are, I will respond to some specific items.

it is another good defence mechanism. pretend that i am not calm enough for you to respond to me.

Quote:
As for "ignore your ****"...NEVER. I will read and enjoy every word you write. Laugh out loud at times!!!

yep. and when you have no argument against it anymore, and know that you have lost completely, you invent reasons to not respond.

a day in the mind of frank:
"oh no. cm just sent a long post with all these amazing points which all destroy my argument completely. ok i need to buy some time so i'll use the excuse that cm is not calm. while i pretend/hope that cm is not calm, i will rack my brains 24/7 to think of ANY possible argument to his amazing post. then if i ever do come up with anything, i will concede that he is calm, so that i can make my point. then, when he rebuts it easily, i will again have to resort to defence mechanism B: CM is not calm!

if that doesn't work, i can always fall back to mechanism A: CM is pontificating!! and i love it because it entertains me!!"

carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Mon 6 Jan, 2014 10:17 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
I take the Heideggerian approach that "time" is co-extensive with "being". There are no "beings" except for ephemeral constructions by observers. There is no "reality" beyond agreement of descriptions among co-constructing observers.
(see the Rorty Clip pragmatists background to this).
The ontological status of mathematical entities like numbers may be a separate issue because unless such numbers are used to model descriptions of an "agreed word" their status is merely a function of the agreed combinatorial operations which can be applied to them as abstractions. Paul Cohen's work on the continuum hypothesis may be of some ontological significance to your views about "infinity" in this matter.

agree 100% with this post.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Mon 6 Jan, 2014 10:22 pm
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Once you call it 'god' you have given in to the theists and agnostics. You have accepted the meddling old man in the sky, like it or not.

wrong. once you are afraid of the word 'god', like you are as an atheist, you need to deny it, rather than investigate it honestly. all atheists say that they don't believe in god because they have investigated completely, and there is no evidence.

but pantheism is the evidence. all religions point to it ultimately, and only fools like setanta think otherwise, blinded in similar fashion to the millions of other abrahamic religions who had to personify god into something impossible.

once you accept pantheism/nonduality, you are certainly not atheist. you are also certainly not theist in the idiotic way that most organized religion is (including hinduism).

agnosticism also eventually goes when you investigate 'knowledge' itself. you can only maintain that you do not 'know' something, when you believe in 'knowing'.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Tue 7 Jan, 2014 02:20 am
@carnaticmystery,
Tell Fresco, I just cut and pasted it.
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  1  
Tue 7 Jan, 2014 07:17 am
@carnaticmystery,
So if I say: 'Queen Elizabeth 2 is a pedophile', or 'Ouagadougou is the capital of India', that's just as true as anything else, right?
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Tue 7 Jan, 2014 07:35 am
@carnaticmystery,
carnaticmystery wrote:

Quote:
Ahhh...still not calm, I see.

you don't see very well then.


Oh, I see just fine. You are not calm at all. You are out of control. You ought really to learn how to contain that.



Quote:
Quote:
Well...when you are, I will respond to some specific items.

it is another good defence mechanism. pretend that i am not calm enough for you to respond to me.


I see! So you think I am not responding to you!

Wow!

Quote:
Quote:
As for "ignore your ****"...NEVER. I will read and enjoy every word you write. Laugh out loud at times!!!

yep. and when you have no argument against it anymore, and know that you have lost completely, you invent reasons to not respond.


Still think I am not responding!

You are a card.

Quote:
a day in the mind of frank:
"oh no. cm just sent a long post with all these amazing points which all destroy my argument completely. ok i need to buy some time so i'll use the excuse that cm is not calm. while i pretend/hope that cm is not calm, i will rack my brains 24/7 to think of ANY possible argument to his amazing post. then if i ever do come up with anything, i will concede that he is calm, so that i can make my point. then, when he rebuts it easily, i will again have to resort to defence mechanism B: CM is not calm!


No one ever has to "pretend" you are not calm, CM.

Quote:
if that doesn't work, i can always fall back to mechanism A: CM is pontificating!! and i love it because it entertains me!!"


If you had a sense of humor...it would even entertain you! Wink
anonymously99
 
  1  
Wed 8 Jan, 2014 01:43 pm
@igm,
Senseless.
igm
 
  2  
Thu 9 Jan, 2014 06:13 pm
@anonymously99,
anonymously99 wrote:

Senseless.

I agree, disagree, both agree and disagree and neither agree or disagree... if there was an 'I'. It's all senseless... and the joke is how we all try to make sense of it... Laughing
Frank Apisa
 
  0  
Fri 10 Jan, 2014 07:00 am
@igm,
igm wrote:

anonymously99 wrote:

Senseless.

I agree, disagree, both agree and disagree and neither agree or disagree... if there was an 'I'. It's all senseless... and the joke is how we all try to make sense of it... Laughing


Some of us don't. Some of us are willing to accept "I do not know" as an answer to most of those ultimate questions. Some of us...like you, igm, seem not only to further the joke by trying to make sense of it...you folk actually pretend you KNOW what is going on.

igm
 
  1  
Sat 11 Jan, 2014 09:01 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

igm wrote:

anonymously99 wrote:

Senseless.

I agree, disagree, both agree and disagree and neither agree or disagree... if there was an 'I'. It's all senseless... and the joke is how we all try to make sense of it... Laughing


Some... Some... most... Some... seem...

 

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