43
   

Are atheists being more illogical than agnostics?

 
 
cicerone imposter
 
  2  
Wed 1 Jan, 2014 11:11 am
@Jpsy,
Not all atheists make their belief there is no god in that conditional manner. For me, an antheist, "there is no possibility of any god."

Gods have existed in human history from the very beginning of language. None has ever been proven to exist. THOSE ARE THE FACTS.
Germlat
 
  1  
Wed 1 Jan, 2014 11:15 am
@Jpsy,
My exact sentiments .
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Wed 1 Jan, 2014 12:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
CI and I
see eye to eye
0 Replies
 
vansdad
 
  2  
Wed 1 Jan, 2014 04:04 pm
@Setanta,
I haven't heard anyone debate as to whether or not fairies existed lol
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Wed 1 Jan, 2014 11:46 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
You pontificate regularly, CM...and when the absurdity or inappropriateness of your pontifications are called out...you pretend you actually are not pontificating.

already addressed your idiotic new pontification theme in my thread.

Quote:
It is useless to attempt getting through to you...but that will never stop me from calling out your pontifications for what they are.

you mean, as how you interpret my words.
Quote:
If you suppose I will stop responding to your posts, whether directed at me or not, you are mistaken.

of course i don't suppose that, i have made it clear that i can see you are attracted to my words like a magnet, incapable of skipping a single word. such is the desire of consciousness to evolve.
Quote:
I will attempt to be respectful and reasonable...but you often cut that avenue off.

your attempt is poor, and i am happy to cut that avenue off because i have no respect for you and see no reason in you.

Quote:
The entire certainty of "non-duality" and "nothing exists"...is pure pontification...unless you KNOW it for certain...and when called out you (sometimes) acknowledge that you do not know it for certain.

wrong, you are just too stupid to understand me. i clearly say that i know with the same certainty you have about anything. if there is ANYTHING on earth that you say you 'know' with actual certainty, such as your own existence, i am simply saying i know about nonduality with the same certainty. because it is my own existence.

Quote:
If you want to be real...stick with "I do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence"..

why would i stick with your eternally pessimistic, retarded idea of reality, which is to forever pretend you do not know, and are not even capable of knowing. because if you think it is even POSSIBLE, then you should be spending all your time figuring it out. but no, it must be totally impossible to really understand reality beyond 'i do not know', according to you. how ******* stupid can a human be?
Quote:
.and any guesses I make are nothing more than blind guesses.

yes, if all you consider yourself to be is blind.
Quote:
If you have knowledge of more than that...share how you obtained that knowledge...

i have shared it thousands of times. by reading 'i am that', and countless other books on nonduality. and going through the same denial stage as you are now for a few years. then coming to the final 'certainty' and 'knowing' of non duality which i am at now.


Quote:
and please, let it be more than the theistic, "I know there is a GOD, because I know there is a GOD."

it is much more than that. forget god and theism.

i know i exist.
i don't know what i am though (your philosophy).
in your world, life ends here. live forever in this stupidity.

in my world, i go further. i don't know what i am, therefore i must find out. how to find out? eliminate all the things that i am not. not the body, not the mind, not the spirit either ultimately, and eventually you get to nothing.

any further details you want, read 'i am that', or any other words by noted nondualists. probably stay away from the western ones though, who clearly tweak the teachings in order to get material profit, ie money and disciples.

a true nondualist will anonymously and freely give his message, with no intent, but rather coming from a spontaneous reaction to people who question him.

Quote:
Have a great 2014, CM. I suspect we will talk often here. I hope we can do it in a reasonably respectful way.

i unfortunately know you will never stop responding to me, but i will try my best to eventually stop myself from responding. it is only because of the very personal nature by which you attack me that my ego feels the need to constantly respond. eventually, that will drop away, i hope. haha. otherwise i will happily keep destroying you forever.
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Wed 1 Jan, 2014 11:59 pm
@vansdad,
vansdad wrote:
"I haven't heard anyone debate as to whether or not fairies existed lol"

anon wrote:
In peter pan they do. As I think to myself, or what movie was it.
carnaticmystery
 
  1  
Thu 2 Jan, 2014 12:01 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Not all atheists make their belief there is no god in that conditional manner. For me, an antheist, "there is no possibility of any god."

this is due to a primitive understanding of the word 'god'.

Quote:
Gods have existed in human history from the very beginning of language. None has ever been proven to exist. THOSE ARE THE FACTS.

wrong. the ideas of gods have evolved since the beginning of language until now, and turned into things which cannot be proven, because people give god attributes and characters and consciousness and make him human-like.

but the original idea of god in many ancient religions is just the entirety of all existence, altogether as one united 'everythingness'. certainly in hinduism this is the case, and still is (brahman). in other religions, perhaps right at the start itself they had the flawed idea that god is more than 'everythingness', and has some other special individual characteristics.

but i suspect that deep inside jesus' and mohammed's message was also that the entire universe is all one united existence, which is god.

this 'everythingness' can certainly be proven to exist as the entire universe. you can call this pantheism, but i think pantheism only had to evolve as a separate stance on theism because of the vastly misinterpreted ideas on god in the first place.

so for me the only FACTS are:
1. we think we and the universe exist, because we have consciousness and intelligence
2. nothing in the universe has ever been proven without use of consciousness and intelligence
3. nothing in the universe has proven the source of consciousness and intelligence
4. god is the label humans have given to the source of the universe and themselves
5. using a word to describe the unity and entirety of all existence seems logical and reasonable, and only stupid when you try and individualise it as a separate concept which needs to be proven separately.
6. ultimately, whether you accept god, reality, science, philosophy or any other stance or opinion, you are 'blindly guessing' as frank likes to say.
7. non duality is a concept which is well documented and explains all of the above very well
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Thu 2 Jan, 2014 07:33 am
Once you call it 'god' you have given in to the theists and agnostics. You have accepted the meddling old man in the sky, like it or not.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Thu 2 Jan, 2014 07:36 am
@carnaticmystery,
carnaticmystery wrote:

Quote:
You pontificate regularly, CM...and when the absurdity or inappropriateness of your pontifications are called out...you pretend you actually are not pontificating.

already addressed your idiotic new pontification theme in my thread.

Quote:
It is useless to attempt getting through to you...but that will never stop me from calling out your pontifications for what they are.

you mean, as how you interpret my words.
Quote:
If you suppose I will stop responding to your posts, whether directed at me or not, you are mistaken.

of course i don't suppose that, i have made it clear that i can see you are attracted to my words like a magnet, incapable of skipping a single word. such is the desire of consciousness to evolve.
Quote:
I will attempt to be respectful and reasonable...but you often cut that avenue off.

your attempt is poor, and i am happy to cut that avenue off because i have no respect for you and see no reason in you.

Quote:
The entire certainty of "non-duality" and "nothing exists"...is pure pontification...unless you KNOW it for certain...and when called out you (sometimes) acknowledge that you do not know it for certain.

wrong, you are just too stupid to understand me. i clearly say that i know with the same certainty you have about anything. if there is ANYTHING on earth that you say you 'know' with actual certainty, such as your own existence, i am simply saying i know about nonduality with the same certainty. because it is my own existence.

Quote:
If you want to be real...stick with "I do not know the true nature of the REALITY of existence"..

why would i stick with your eternally pessimistic, retarded idea of reality, which is to forever pretend you do not know, and are not even capable of knowing. because if you think it is even POSSIBLE, then you should be spending all your time figuring it out. but no, it must be totally impossible to really understand reality beyond 'i do not know', according to you. how ******* stupid can a human be?
Quote:
.and any guesses I make are nothing more than blind guesses.

yes, if all you consider yourself to be is blind.
Quote:
If you have knowledge of more than that...share how you obtained that knowledge...

i have shared it thousands of times. by reading 'i am that', and countless other books on nonduality. and going through the same denial stage as you are now for a few years. then coming to the final 'certainty' and 'knowing' of non duality which i am at now.


Quote:
and please, let it be more than the theistic, "I know there is a GOD, because I know there is a GOD."

it is much more than that. forget god and theism.

i know i exist.
i don't know what i am though (your philosophy).
in your world, life ends here. live forever in this stupidity.

in my world, i go further. i don't know what i am, therefore i must find out. how to find out? eliminate all the things that i am not. not the body, not the mind, not the spirit either ultimately, and eventually you get to nothing.

any further details you want, read 'i am that', or any other words by noted nondualists. probably stay away from the western ones though, who clearly tweak the teachings in order to get material profit, ie money and disciples.

a true nondualist will anonymously and freely give his message, with no intent, but rather coming from a spontaneous reaction to people who question him.

Quote:
Have a great 2014, CM. I suspect we will talk often here. I hope we can do it in a reasonably respectful way.

i unfortunately know you will never stop responding to me, but i will try my best to eventually stop myself from responding. it is only because of the very personal nature by which you attack me that my ego feels the need to constantly respond. eventually, that will drop away, i hope. haha. otherwise i will happily keep destroying you forever.


Oh...CM...you should so wound up and angry.

Try to remain calm...and maybe you will start to make some sense.

Do it as a New Year's resolution. Try: I will remain calm...and attempt to make some sense. Wink

When you get calm...I'll actually start responding more to individual items.

We'll have fun.
Setanta
 
  1  
Thu 2 Jan, 2014 07:44 am
People are entitled, of course, to have their own opinions. People are not entitled to have their own facts. Anyone who claims that something is a fact assumes the burden of proof.
0 Replies
 
Herald
 
  1  
Thu 2 Jan, 2014 12:01 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:
You have accepted the meddling old man in the sky, like it or not.

First, how did you come to know that it is He ... and not She (Mother Gaea or whoever) or even It (another Intelligent Live Form) for example, and second where did you know from that He/She is 'old'. If it is a civilization at 1 MN years 'of age' they may consider themselves of being at a 'teenage' ... if they are prepared for eternal life, where eternal is at least 1 T.
BTW things that have plastered the minds of so many people (2÷3 BN), for so many years (10,000 years or so) could hardly be wiped out with a stroke.
IMV the key to understand this whole story with God and the Prophets is to study what it is all about. If we are the heirs or successors of a former ILF all these things with God and the big bang and the evolution will fall apart ... like a house of cards.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 2 Jan, 2014 12:19 pm
@Herald,
Nobody knows whether it's a she, he, or it, because nobody has seen "it" first hand. There are many paintings, but those were "created" several centuries after he/she/it presumed to have lived.

It's up to the people who believe in "it" to prove it exists. That's all part of Logic 101.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  1  
Thu 2 Jan, 2014 12:23 pm
This verse seems to indicate that aliens made contact thousands of years ago-
"The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown" (Genesis 6:4)

Nobody has ever been able to translate the word 'Nephilim' which could mean "giants"...."the violent ones"...."the fallen ones"..."sons of God", in other words powerful beings who had descended to earth to interbreed with human women to boost the quality of human DNA and the gene pool.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nephilim

So, returning to this threads title "Are atheists being more illogical than agnostics?" the answer would seem to be "Yes" because whereas atheists would dismiss the above speculation out of hand, agnostics would at least remain neutral and non-committal about it..Smile
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Thu 2 Jan, 2014 12:27 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Depending on one article over all the current science is rather - stupid!
0 Replies
 
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Thu 2 Jan, 2014 12:40 pm
@Herald,
As far as this statement..
edgarblythe wrote:
You have accepted the meddling old man in the sky, like it or not.


How can you accept what you have doubted your entire life? I thinking to myself I don't know.

One may say, "sure" but honestly how do you know. if they'd done so or not.

When an individual is unsure, not able to understand hardly anything there really is nothing they can accept. Always asking themself questions. Doubting almost everything.

Age age age, being digit one before digit two years of age, you know, twelve, is not quite 'teenage'. For being technical.

Under the age of digit one before the digit seven, you know, seventeen, you're still a child. Not fully developed. Rate in maturity growth varies depending on how a person had been abused throughout their childhood. years. Know of a woman who is an outstanding example.

I being a man in my sixties can't tell you based on personal experience. For I've never experienced as this woman has.
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Thu 2 Jan, 2014 12:46 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
What are you, stalking me? Romeo Fabulini.
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Thu 2 Jan, 2014 01:08 pm
Quote:
Cicerone said: Depending on one article over all the current science is rather - stupid!

Look at it another way mate and let me pay atheists a compliment..Smile-
Satan DOESN'T WANT people to discuss and research the bible, for example you call my Nephilim sons of god/daughters of men post "stupid" and refuse to consider it.
See, Satan is proving he's scared of atheists so much that he poisons their minds against the bible to stop them attempting to unlock its secrets.
For example just look at how he's poisoned Dawkins probing scientific mind against it, it's what he DOES!

Satan in Gibson's 'The Passion'-
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/sub2/satan.jpg
0 Replies
 
Romeo Fabulini
 
  0  
Thu 2 Jan, 2014 01:13 pm
Quote:
Anonymously said: What are you, stalking me? Romeo Fabulini.

Not me mate, it must be Old Nick-
"The devil prowls round like a roaring lion" (1 Peter 5:8 )
So you'd better cover yourself in case he finds a weak spot in your armour..Wink
"Put on the full armour of God against the wiles of the devil, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one" (Ephesians 6:11-18 )

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g64/PoorOldSpike/Throne-blood2_zps504561be.gif~original

PS- Satan's "arrows" are poisonous thoughts which he injects into our minds to wind us up to make us unhappy and feel useless and worthless. He tries it with EVERYBODY on this earth, but Christians can sense when he'd trying it with them, and will simply ignore him-
"Don't give the devil a foothold" (Eph 4:27)
"Resist the devil and he'll flee from you" (James 4:7)

But atheists don't believe in the devil and are therefore easy meat for him because they can't defend against something they don't believe exists.
Incidentally the word "Satan" is just an oldfashioned way of labelling the dark bad vibes that are sloshing around the universe and trying to take root in our deepest subconscious to sabotage us.
anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Thu 2 Jan, 2014 02:43 pm
@Romeo Fabulini,
Quote:
Anonymously said: What are you, stalking me? Romeo Fabulini.


Anon was not serious. Get over yourself.

Anon wrote: "I'd rather worry about myself stalking myself than someone such as Romeo Fabulini stalking me."

anonymously99stwin
 
  1  
Thu 2 Jan, 2014 02:48 pm
@anonymously99stwin,
As I sit here and think to myself what a fu*king idiot.
 

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