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Why do atheist try to convert Christians

Forums: Religion, Atheism, Jesus, Ethics, Morality
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rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2012 09:19 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
You're wasting your time talking to Spade, he never listens.
Yeh, but if I waited for someone to listen to me I probably wouldn't ever get to say anything. Wink
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Jun, 2012 09:28 am
@rosborne979,
Oh . . . you're married, eh?
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 12:15 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Science doesn't need any evidence to support it. Science is not a belief or a theory. Science is simply a methodology for understanding the natural world.

And this simple methodology, for understanding the natural world, is not "based" upon theories?? Upon theories?
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 12:18 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
No scientists use Science to try to destroy or discredit God. What destroys and discredits simplistic visions of God is a better understanding of how the natural world actually works. Simplistic concepts of God crash into the rocks of reality for many reasons. Discoveries that come through science are just one of them.

Why do atheists "use" science to try to "prove" there is no god, then? If scientists do not do it themselves?

And atheists have no belief?
Krumple
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 02:22 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
Why do atheists "use" science to try to "prove" there is no god, then? If scientists do not do it themselves?

And atheists have no belief?


Actually it's no different than this. I don't know why I engage you in conversation because clearly you are a moron. A wise person once said, doing the same thing over and over againd and expecting a different result is insanity. It is my own fault.

Science doesn't do a damn thing to try and disprove a god. It does it indirectly because it reveals reality to us. God is not real and thus revealing reality reveals there is no god.

The fact that you like to take a huge **** on science is a major contradiction on your part. There are so many things you use in your life that had science not been utilized, you wouldn't even have. So next time you need medical attention I dare you to tell the doctors and medical people no, that instead you will pray your injury or medical needs away. I doubt you will do that but you can't seem to realize the contradiction you are making.
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 07:18 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
And this simple methodology, for understanding the natural world, is not "based" upon theories??

Science produces theories, but it is not based upon theories.

The body of scientific knowledge is composed of theories, many of which have been demonstrated so strongly that they are no longer questioned and are considered facts (like the theory of evolution for example).
rosborne979
 
  3  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 07:44 am
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
Why do atheists "use" science to try to "prove" there is no god, then? If scientists do not do it themselves?

Atheists, just like any rational person, point out discoveries and observations of the natural world. That's all they are doing. They are not trying to disprove god or religion by doing so.

If you find that observations of the natural world are in conflict with your view of God, then the problem is that your concept of God is in conflict with reality, and that has nothing to do with atheists or scientists. It's something you have to reconcile yourself.

You don't think that Doctors are trying to disprove Voodoo when they study medicine. You don't think chemists are trying to disprove alchemy when they do chemistry. You don't think astronomers are trying to disprove astrology when they study the cosmos. So why do you think scientists are trying to disprove God when they study nature?

Simplistic concepts of God (like the biblical God) are just incidental casualties in the discovery process.

I sympathize with your predicament. Gods have been falling for centuries as our knowledge of the natural world makes them look more and more ridiculous. The Greeks and Egyptians believed in many gods, one for almost everything. But those beliefs were so specific that each time a better understanding of something came along the "God" had to be dropped in favor of the obvious. The same thing is happening now as better and better knowledge of the natural world pushes "Gods" in to the cracks further and further. Today's "Gods" are more disassociated with specific events which can be easily explained, so they endure in the cracks of knowledge science hasn't yet filled. But those cracks are so thin already that the only workable concepts of God which still fit reality are so vaguely defined that they almost don't qualify as "Gods" any more. Spinoza's God and Deism are the last vapors of Godhood left for reality, while biblical Gods live on only as stubborn delusions.
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 09:13 am
Atheists may have beliefs, and likely do, given that everyone has beliefs. They just don't happen to believe that there are any gods.
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 04:20 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
Actually it's no different than this. I don't know why I engage you in conversation because clearly you are a moron. A wise person once said, doing the same thing over and over againd and expecting a different result is insanity. It is my own fault.

Science doesn't do a damn thing to try and disprove a god. It does it indirectly because it reveals reality to us. God is not real and thus revealing reality reveals there is no god.

The fact that you like to take a huge **** on science is a major contradiction on your part. There are so many things you use in your life that had science not been utilized, you wouldn't even have. So next time you need medical attention I dare you to tell the doctors and medical people no, that instead you will pray your injury or medical needs away. I doubt you will do that but you can't seem to realize the contradiction you are making.

Then, by all means please stop talking to me...I did not call you out...Yet, you replied to me, then called me a moron etc...

When I do so, You have a leg to stand on, to point out who is being the moron or not!!

If what I say is in fact SO STUPID!!

There are many things in which you do, that "use" theologies...And which you use to take a huge **** on...Such as what and why your personal morality is right or wrong....

And why it is right or wrong...

Of, BTW, you can thank philosophers, for that great science, you embrace, and think I take a **** on....

And I can thank philosophy, and the minds who were thinking about it, when I embrace theologies, that led to what is now science...

So why do you take huge shits on theologies?? Philosophy started it all!
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 04:24 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Science produces theories, but it is not based upon theories.

If it produces theories, then these so called facts were also once theories...

Quote:
The body of scientific knowledge is composed of theories, many of which have been demonstrated so strongly that they are no longer questioned and are considered facts (like the theory of evolution for example).

That does not make it a fact, that makes it a theory, which is strongly supported by a lot...

There is a big difference there...

A lot of people embrace a theology, by theory, I can argue, that it has been demonstrated so strongly by the believers of that theology, Does this mean it is a fact to you???
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 04:32 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Atheists may have beliefs, and likely do, given that everyone has beliefs. They just don't happen to believe that there are any gods.



precisely
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 04:39 pm
@rosborne979,
Quote:
Atheists, just like any rational person, point out discoveries and observations of the natural world. That's all they are doing. They are not trying to disprove god or religion by doing so.

Sure seems like hundreds on here are trying to do that...Or there is no real need for an atheist to debate a theist, in one of these threads as to how a theist is wrong? No?

Quote:
If you find that observations of the natural world are in conflict with your view of God, then the problem is that your concept of God is in conflict with reality, and that has nothing to do with atheists or scientists. It's something you have to reconcile yourself.

I do not find that observations of the natural world are in conflict with my view of God, I believe he is the reasons why they are done so...The problem, that the concept of God is in conflict with reality, is because of atheists, and they say they do not have a belief?, Nor a mission to "use" science to "disprove" Gods?? That is the conflict of the view of Gods...To me...

Quote:
You don't think that Doctors are trying to disprove Voodoo when they study medicine. You don't think chemists are trying to disprove alchemy when they do chemistry. You don't think astronomers are trying to disprove astrology when they study the cosmos. So why do you think scientists are trying to disprove God when they study nature?

Indirectly, by the way you per port the way you have and above...Then all these people, Are doing just that! Because they are better understanding the nature of reality, So they must be indirectly disproving theories, which give us a better understanding of the reality of things...

I do not believe a scientist uses science to disprove a God, I believe atheists use science in a way, that not even the scientists do themselves to "prove" "disprove" things, which makes it some sort of belief...Or in fact that they are some type of one common thing together...Rather than a lack of anything...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 04:45 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
Atheists may have beliefs, and likely do, given that everyone has beliefs. They just don't happen to believe that there are any gods.




Quote:
precisely

Then that makes them someone who is more than just have a rejection of something, And not solely someone who uses science to become more in nature, and enhance reality...

But someone on some type of mission, to use this "evidence" and "prove" something with it....

Just because they do not happen to believe any Gods exist...Does not mean that is not a belief...

If I said, I do not believe Santa exists, that is a not a rejection of a belief....

It is a belief, that I believe he does not...
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 05:23 pm
@Krumple,
Quote:
I don't know why I engage you in conversation because clearly you are a moron.

Because, that must clearly make you think you are a moron also, right?? Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes 2 Cents
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 07:12 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
I do not find that observations of the natural world are in conflict with my view of God
Then what is your concept of "God"?

I had assumed you were a biblical literalist, but maybe that's not the case.

In what ways does your God affect or manifest itself in nature?
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 07:18 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:

If I said, I do not believe Santa exists, that is a not a rejection of a belief....

It is a belief, that I believe he does not...


no

you really aren't getting the fundamentals of the difference between belief and lack of belief


ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 5 Jun, 2012 07:19 pm
@XXSpadeMasterXX,
XXSpadeMasterXX wrote:
per port


please learn, and use, "purport"
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 02:31 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
no

you really aren't getting the fundamentals of the difference between belief and lack of belief

Well, then please explain it for me, I am willing to hear your aspect of it...

How is me saying, I do not believe Santa exists, not the same exact thing as me saying I have a belief, that I believe Santa is not....
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 02:34 am
@ehBeth,
Quote:
please learn, and use, "purport"

Thank you! and I will!

But please tell me, why is my grammar important to you? This seems to be the second time you have done this....

I have seen atheists with poor grammar, and never called them out upon it, unless I was joking with one...

What is the reason? I do not even see you doing it to other atheists either...
0 Replies
 
XXSpadeMasterXX
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Jun, 2012 02:37 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
In what ways does your God affect or manifest itself in nature?

In EVERY way that nature manifests itself....by him...
 

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