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Why do atheist try to convert Christians

 
 
reasoning logic
 
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Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 04:02 pm
@izzythepush,
Do you think to much of Barbra would do that to a man?
izzythepush
 
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Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 04:03 pm
@reasoning logic,
Any Barbra is too much for me.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 04:13 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
the society as a whole have no interest one way or another in promoting long terms stable gay relationships or licensing them for that matter.


I never thought of you as part of the herd, I always thought that you stepped out of the herd mentality!


Quote:
Unions of gay couples no matter how loving do not produce children without outside aid.


Why would you care if they have children or not? Many couples are not able to have children! Where is the logic of them getting married and the gays not?

This is not a good place for this but here is a link that is!

http://able2know.org/topic/125076-80#post-4667763
reasoning logic
 
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Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 04:20 pm
@BillRM,
I am not gay but I can follow this type of logic!

0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 04:38 pm
@reasoning logic,
Look as a class heterosexual unions produce children and gay unions do not.

The tax laws for example are zero sum if you take less from two people who are married then you would do so of two people who are not you are transferring wealth from singles to married couples.

There need to be some reason and some logic for doing so and in the case of heterosexual relationships the state have a reason to aid and promote long term and stable relationships between couples that does not exist for gay couples.

By allowing gay marriages you are being unfair to singles both gay and not gay with out the justification of that this is the class that raise the vast bulk of the next generation.

The same logic apply for added SS benefits and added health care benefits as in the taxing rate differences.

Sorry I support gays rights in all others aspects but not in having a claim to a transfer of wealth from single men and women to them as married couples.
reasoning logic
 
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Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 04:44 pm
@BillRM,
The transfer of wealth should be a completely different subject in my opinion!

In my opinion some families may need help raising kids but why shouldn't that be all of our responsibility gays and straights?

Quote:
transfer of wealth from single men and women to them as married couples.
Do you think that gays are asking for this transfer?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 05:04 pm
@reasoning logic,
The transfer of wealth is a big part of the state licensing such arrangements and the gay community had so far made it fairly clear that full married rights is the goal including the transfer of wealth.

Separate laws call domestic partnership laws are not good enough as the gay community is claiming full rights to all legal benefits of marriages.

To me to grant such full rights is being unfair to single men and women both gay and straight.

Now this subject had been driven into the ground on other threads so this is my last comment on the subject on this thread.


izzythepush
 
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Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 06:06 pm
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

The transfer of wealth is a big part of the state licensing such arrangements and the gay community had so far made it fairly clear that full married rights is the goal including the transfer of wealth.

Separate laws call domestic partnership laws are not good enough as the gay community is claiming full rights to all legal benefits of marriages.

To me to grant such full rights is being unfair to single men and women both gay and straight.





If it's unfair to single men and women, why single out gay couples? Why not all married couples?
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 06:11 pm
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Why not all married couples?


DAMN it go to the other threads to pursue this topic however the short answer is that as a CLASS the state have a reason to be concern about having long term stable heterosexual relationships as that is the major engine for producing the next generation of citizens.
reasoning logic
 
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Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 06:19 pm
@izzythepush,
I think that Bill may be getting religious on us!
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 06:38 pm
@izzythepush,
Have you seen this?

Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 07:43 pm
@reasoning logic,
Good Lord this is the most shameless piece of propoganda masquerading as natural science that I've seen in a very long time. Nat Geo should be ashamed.

Because the narrator has a deadpan British accent hardly makes it science, although obviously that was the intent.

This clip is so full of bullshit, it's astounding.

The narrators makes it a point to inform us that homosexual behavior has been documented in 400 different species.

400!

Wow, that's a lot!

Until you realize that there are estimated to be at least 1.7 million species of life on earth.

This is two one hundreths of a percentage of the total number of species on earth.

The incidence of birth defects among earthly species is, undoubtedly, higher.

Now let's examine the evidence that 400 species engage in homosexual practices:

Case in point: Male giraffes engage in neck rubbing. According to the narrator this is clearly a sexual practice and demonstrates giraffe homosexuality. Really? Men throughout Europe, if not other places in the world kiss one another. Clear evidence of homosexual behavior?

In fact the narrator has to acknowledge that of the 400 examples, "full anal penetrations" is rare. So, except for orangutans who apparently can create for themselves a faux vagina, evidence of homosexual practices among 400 species consists mainly of shows of affection.

He also contends that his presentation of tripe shows that "repoduction is not the be all and end all."

Really?

So tomorrow, all of the lions in Africa solely practice homosexuality. Clearly there will be no lion cubs, but so what? Reproduction is not the the be all and end all. The last living lions got to have fun anyway they wanted so it is all good.

Randy males that are deprived of heterosexual congress by more dominant males resort to homosexuality to let of sexual steam and this is somehow proof that homosexual relationships are normal and prevalent within nature?

Kids masturbating in their beds at night is perfectly normal but it hardly equates oninism with heterosexuality.

This is the sort of crap that fuels peoples resistance to declaring homosexuality "normal."

Homosexuals exist and, notwithstanding what some cretins believe, their existance is not an insult to God or a blight on humanity, practioners must not be persecuted simply because of their orientation. They can be fine upstanding citizens or they can be criminals. The sociological influences relative to their sexual orientation may make them more prone to anti-social behavior, but this isn't necessarily an inherent characteristic of homosexuals.

Their sexual orientation is their business and need not be addressed in public forums...even and especially not by them.

Who has any reason to really care if a HS teacher in his or her private life is a bondage freak, a neo-Nazi. a believer in Norse Gods, a socialist, a John Bircher, or a homosexual, as long as that aspect of their existence doesn't meaningfully intrude upon the job of teaching kids?

I certainly don't.

I do, however, find it entirely objectionable when teachers engage in propoganda for their personal belief systems.

There is no reason to believe that a homosexual English teacher is any less suited to teach our children than a heterosexual counterpart unless the former restricts his or reading list to works that address homosexuality in a favorable way. That is not enlightenment, it is propoganda.

Witness the bill recently passed in California requiring schools to specifically include the contributions of homosexuals in their curriculum. What's more, it specifically prohibits any historical discussion that might reflect poorly on homosexuals.

This isn't broadening academics, it is institutionalizing propoganda.

This sort of fast and loose play with history and facts for ideological purposes doesn't bode well for our future.

We are amazed at the crap the Chinese and Russian tyrants insisted on teaching their kids, but too many of us find it A-OK when the same tactic is employed here for a "cause" they favor.

Disgraceful.


BillRM
 
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Reply Mon 18 Jul, 2011 11:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
To me it does not it matter if homosexuality is consider a “normal” condition or a “non-normal” condition in humans or animals as far as treating homosexuals fairly under our laws.

We do not go out of our way to treat a child born with one eye or one hand badly or for that matter and there also seems no need to show others types of animals born with one eye or lacking a limb and declaring therefore such conditions “normal”.

In any case, a fairly fix percentile of our population is born with a sex drive aim at the same sex and that seem a “normal” condition.

Now we can try to force this group into leading a more “normal” sex life at least on the surface or we can relaxed about the matter.

Kind of similar to forcing left handed children to used their right hands instead or going with the flow and not trying to change children born left handed into acting right handed.

Only if we get into a situation where every human who can breed need to be a breeder for the survival of the specie would there be a justification to once more suppress the acting out of homosexual behaviors at least in my opinion.

Oh one interesting idea that I would like to throw out is that suppressing homosexuality may to a degree be build into us from the time periods of humans being living in small bands and the rate of childhood mortality was very high and the band needed every possible child that the women of the tribe could carry to term.
izzythepush
 
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Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 01:53 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Quote:
Why not all married couples?


DAMN it go to the other threads to pursue this topic however the short answer is that as a CLASS the state have a reason to be concern about having long term stable heterosexual relationships as that is the major engine for producing the next generation of citizens.


Isn't there a problem with increased global population? Gays pays their taxes, and by and large don't contribute to the world food crisis by having children. If you want to tax something gay tax bloody Streisland records.
BillRM
 
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Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 04:07 am
@izzythepush,
Quote:
Isn't there a problem with increased global population?


Sorry you are behind the times in Europe and in Japan it is a population implosion not an explosion.

In the US we are just at replacement levels except for foreign immigration.

Only in the poor areas of the world is population still growing at a fast rate.

And last but not least single gays citizens and single straight citizens pay taxes and I still do not see the justification of taking their wealth and transferring it to gay couples.
0 Replies
 
reasoning logic
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 03:10 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Good Lord this is the most shameless piece of propoganda masquerading as natural science that I've seen in a very long time. Nat Geo should be ashamed.


You thought of it as a science? I thought of it as a safari tour at a zoo with the opinions of a tour guide that seen things differently than you!

If you would like to talk science then I would say that we could be talking about the laboratory conditions that we created to make gays and hermaphrodite animals!
We could also go into botany and talk about hermaphrodite plants that produce sweet fruit when compared to the same species that are not hermaphrodite and produce bitter fruit. We could even talk about our adventure of making seeds that are only hermaphrodite so that we do not have to grow plants to maturity just to find out if their fruits are going to be sweet.

Now I do have to say that even if we did have such a discussion I would not be able to speak of it in empirical terms as you are because I am no absolutist!

I am happy to see that you have a respect for gays, Are you OK with them getting married?
BillRM
 
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Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 03:54 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Are you OK with them getting married?


So you are using the gay married yardstick to judge how someone feel about the gay rights issue overall?

Off hand other then the married issue for reasons I had already given I can not think of any legal rights that I would not support gays from having.

It is a poor yardstick in my opinion in judging the overall feelings about gays rights.

Whether individuals who sex drive is aim at the same sex is "natural" or not is beside the point as such individuals are still citizens either way with the right to go about their law full business as anyone else in the society.

That include holding positions of public trust and serving in the military in an open manner.
reasoning logic
 
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Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 04:01 pm
@BillRM,
Is it a transfer of wealth and survival of our species issue for the most part for you?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 04:29 pm
@reasoning logic,
Quote:
Is it a transfer of wealth issue for the most part for you?


Yes ........................................................

It is interesting that when you hold positions on public issues that are complex and go out of your way in trying to explain that complex viewpoint some people still wish to placed you in one camp or the other.

I had the nerve for example to state on this board the position that the handling of the child porn issue under UK laws made more sense to me then current US laws. The UK divide such material into levels and not all sexual pictures of minors are the same under the UK laws.

A naked picture of a 17 years old is not treated as a picture showing an infant being rape for example and that go even more so when it the 17 years old who took the picture herself and send it to her sexual partner/boyfriend.

The first level in the UK might just get the person a warning and serous prison time kick in at level three or so.

In any case for daring to state such a position AM for one stated that I support the free viewing and owning of evil child porn!!!!!!!!!!

Life is hard for anyone who take complex positions on emotional issues.
reasoning logic
 
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Reply Tue 19 Jul, 2011 04:33 pm
@BillRM,
Good post bill in my opinion!
0 Replies
 
 

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