10
   

what makes someone a jerk?

 
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 05:51 am
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

True, but we aren't talking about jerkiness. We are talking evil and I think those guys are some pretty good examples of it.
We are... The same sort of ignorance motivates the small Jerk and the notorious serial killer..
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Sat 11 Jun, 2011 01:14 pm
@Fido,
So I guess the whole world is ignorant then? It's just one more way to take away responsibility from those commiting the acts. I am sorry but I do not buy it.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 06:12 am
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

So I guess the whole world is ignorant then? It's just one more way to take away responsibility from those commiting the acts. I am sorry but I do not buy it.
Hard to argue with that, and the people in it too... We know little and so should do less... We as a people, given our Roman and Judaistic legal history, are all too concerned with fixing responsibility and not at all concerned with fixing bad behavior... An ounce understanding aimed at prevention is worth a ton of prison made to make us feel good about making others feel worse... And since most injustice is legal, and law is constructed by the unjust to condone injustice, we will not soon see improvement...

We create criminals with law... We expect to teach with example those who have already learned injustice by suffering injustice, and then hide the examples out of sight of society...I am sorry; but you have no choice but to buy it... It does not matter that law creates more criminals than it cures... It does not matter that it serves better to enrichen a whole community surviving as an institution, and to empower them at the expense of others, or that as a practical matter, law is like swatting flies with a steam shovel- because we are all taxed to pay for it... In my county, which contains the state capital, Law enforcement is the largest county expense by far...Do you think we suffer less crime or fear crime less for all the money we throw at it??? The problem is this, purely and simply... We seek the responsible party to avoid responsibility ourselves... Socrates was once said to have answered the question: When will there be justice in Athens with this reply: There will be justice in Athens when those not injured by injustice are as indignant as those who are... Law is but a species of justice...

If we will survive whole, we must make universal justice our universal concern because it goes on and on, with more and different people hurt... We must understand the cause, prevent the act by perfecting the person, giving that person a place and an understanding of his place in society, and in that fashion take responsibility for ourselves... There are no innocent people in guilty societies, no guilty people in innocent societies... It is justice that leads to a happy life and a happy society... It should be our first, second, final, and always thought in regard to our human relation...
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Jun, 2011 08:03 am
@Fido,
Okay, let's try this Fido. Let me paint a little scenario for you.

Suppose a man walks into his home and there is another man in that home that has raped his wife and daughters and has killed them and his sons. The man is caught red-handed doing it so there is absolutely no doubt about who the responsibile party is. The police come and take the man to jail.

Now, a short time later the accused goes before a judge and lays out this "coming from a broken home, abused as a child, etc." defense for raping and killing the other man's family.

The judge feels sorry for the accused and says "you had a hard life, no wonder you turned out like you did. I will set you free and hope you have learned a lesson. I will not hold you responsible for the rapes and murders." That man walked out of the courtroom free as a bird and free to commit the same acts again.

Is that justice? If it is, for whom? The one man lost his family. Where is his justice?

You cannot have justice unless you hold the responsible parties accountable for their acts. Do you suppose the detectives in the Ted Bundy case were "seeking the responsible party to void their own responsibility"? What responsibility? They did not murder women, Ted Bundy did! Our laws are not perfect and neither is the justice system but it's what we have and thank God there are avenues now that have allowed innocent men go free that were once wrongly imprisoned.

You cannot perfect people. Ted Bundy was educated, highly intelligent, and cunning as a fox. You cannot perfect that type of person. He had no conscience. No one could give him one. How many parents do you know that brought their children up knowing right from wrong but yet that child ends up on drugs or in trouble with the police?

Until EVERYONE takes responsibility for THEMSELVES nothing is going to change except for maybe get worse.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 06:02 am
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

Okay, let's try this Fido. Let me paint a little scenario for you.

Suppose a man walks into his home and there is another man in that home that has raped his wife and daughters and has killed them and his sons. The man is caught red-handed doing it so there is absolutely no doubt about who the responsibile party is. The police come and take the man to jail.

Now, a short time later the accused goes before a judge and lays out this "coming from a broken home, abused as a child, etc." defense for raping and killing the other man's family.

The judge feels sorry for the accused and says "you had a hard life, no wonder you turned out like you did. I will set you free and hope you have learned a lesson. I will not hold you responsible for the rapes and murders." That man walked out of the courtroom free as a bird and free to commit the same acts again.

Is that justice? If it is, for whom? The one man lost his family. Where is his justice?

You cannot have justice unless you hold the responsible parties accountable for their acts. Do you suppose the detectives in the Ted Bundy case were "seeking the responsible party to void their own responsibility"? What responsibility? They did not murder women, Ted Bundy did! Our laws are not perfect and neither is the justice system but it's what we have and thank God there are avenues now that have allowed innocent men go free that were once wrongly imprisoned.

You cannot perfect people. Ted Bundy was educated, highly intelligent, and cunning as a fox. You cannot perfect that type of person. He had no conscience. No one could give him one. How many parents do you know that brought their children up knowing right from wrong but yet that child ends up on drugs or in trouble with the police?

Until EVERYONE takes responsibility for THEMSELVES nothing is going to change except for maybe get worse.

Are you looking for a hypothetical morality??? Based upon what when morals and moral forms are themselves infinites??? All I can tell you is that moral acts are done by moral people, and a quality common to moral people is to think before action, and judgement always... I am not interested in perfecting anyone... Only Allah is perfect say the Muslims... They exclude the bugbear of perfection from their lives and so do I... You especially cannot perfect some so called people who prove by their actions which reveal their thoughts and their want of emotions, and sympathy, and prove they are not human beings... We all have the right to life, but the process of trying such people is that of determining that they are not human and do not have the human right to life... It does not matter that they look human, or speak our language... If they are not human, and sufficient people agree, then they should die... Yet; such people are not evil, but malignant, suffering from defect or disease, and as such are an event of nature as much as a cyclone or a flood that no one would call evil, and yet never wish upon themselves...

What you must try to understand is that an explanation is not an excuse... An Apology is nothing more than an explanation, and when that is insufficient to deny guilt, what is some one, anyone to do??? We want to know what events led up to acts of violence so we can find the common denominator if there is one... It is purely for economy... You are Country... To send some one to jail for a situation that produces criminals faster than they can be jailed is closing the gate after the horses has scattered... Attack the cause, and not the criminal... If laws do not deliver a just society, but rather seek an ordered society in which injustice can be pursued for a living, -you will sooner or later have more lawlessness than lawmen, and the society will sink under the cost of law... Injustice at the top that is responsible for the wealth of the wealthy, and the poverty of the poor only teaches injustice to every citizen capable of learning... Take the handle off the pump... The simple solution is the fastest and least expensive solution... We do not accept justice because we love injustice when we see a personal benefit to it, and in this way a whole people is made immoral and fit only for destruction...
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 07:41 am
@Fido,
Immoral people also do moral acts and moral people do immoral acts. If you think people commit evil out of ignorance well then, that's what you think. I don't find it to be true.

You are the one that originally used the word "perfect" not me. Sheesh! I was only commenting on it.


Quote:
If we will survive whole, we must make universal justice our universal concern because it goes on and on, with more and different people hurt... We must understand the cause, prevent the act by perfecting the person, giving that person a place and an understanding of his place in society, and in that fashion take responsibility for ourselves... There are no innocent people in guilty societies, no guilty people in innocent societies... It is justice that leads to a happy life and a happy society... It should be our first, second, final, and always thought in regard to our human relation...


But NOW you aren't interesting in perfecting anyone? Which is it? Or do you just want someone else to do it thereby taking the responsibility off of you?

Quote:
I am not interested in perfecting anyone...
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 09:07 am
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

Immoral people also do moral acts and moral people do immoral acts. If you think people commit evil out of ignorance well then, that's what you think. I don't find it to be true.

You are the one that originally used the word "perfect" not me. Sheesh! I was only commenting on it.


Quote:
If we will survive whole, we must make universal justice our universal concern because it goes on and on, with more and different people hurt... We must understand the cause, prevent the act by perfecting the person, giving that person a place and an understanding of his place in society, and in that fashion take responsibility for ourselves... There are no innocent people in guilty societies, no guilty people in innocent societies... It is justice that leads to a happy life and a happy society... It should be our first, second, final, and always thought in regard to our human relation...


But NOW you aren't interesting in perfecting anyone? Which is it? Or do you just want someone else to do it thereby taking the responsibility off of you?

Quote:
I am not interested in perfecting anyone...

Ooooh... Caught me with my number twelve right in the mouth... A better choice of words would have been improving the person, but if the object is improvement to a point where immorality is beyond consideration, that would be a degree of perfection... Yet the whole notion of perfection like all moral forms is an infinite, and rather pointless to consider and futile to aspire to...

Please let me add that while we describe people as moral, amoral or immoral, all people are moral... Morality is a certain relationship all human beings have with their society, and no human being can escape their morals to any extent... Human like animals, as you say, have no conscience which is how we review or preview our actions in the light of our morals... Yet, all moral people who are considered moral, and who consider themselves moral because they are mostly moral are never completely moral... All immoral people who are considered immoral because they are mostly immoral are never without some morality... To be human is to have morals...Every form of relationship has its morals, and to be a part of any form -one must accept the morals of the form... It is that conscious acceptance of morals that gives membership in a society, and the acceptance of the individual that gives him recognition, and when the individual rejects morals he is no longer a member; but an outlaw...
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 09:33 am
@Fido,
Sociopaths have no conscience. How can you have morals if you have no conscience to guide you as to what is immoral or moral. We could go on forever Fido and I will never believe that all evil is done out of ignorance. Some may be but most of it is done out of choice IMO. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 11:46 am
@hamilton,
hamilton wrote:

oh yeah, h20 man... you know, im kind of new here, so im still at a lost for why everyone hates him... could you (or anyone) put a link or something to a topic with examples, so that at least i know why?

Idea
Idea

oh yeah
0 Replies
 
H2O MAN
 
  0  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 11:58 am
@Fido,


Fido, did the Guns & Ammo you recently purchased meet your needs and expectations?
H2O MAN
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 12:57 pm
http://idiotflashback.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/thejerk.jpg
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 01:14 pm
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

Sociopaths have no conscience. How can you have morals if you have no conscience to guide you as to what is immoral or moral. We could go on forever Fido and I will never believe that all evil is done out of ignorance. Some may be but most of it is done out of choice IMO. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
You cannot even be human if you have no conscience... That is what the whole process of trial for capital murder is about, to determine if some one acted without conscience and killed and it is all resolved by removing them from their universal human right to life... Show you are not human and you may be killed, and good riddance... Still such people if they are not human are still a work of nature, and while we may not like them we cannot classify them as evil since to be other than they are is not a choice given to them... People improve themselves through reason... The sick having only the tool of reason without the bond of sympathy for human kind cannot use the thing objectively... They cannot lead their reason where their hearts would have them go... They have no hearts...
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 01:16 pm
@H2O MAN,
H2O MAN wrote:



Fido, did the Guns & Ammo you recently purchased meet your needs and expectations?
If my ammo works when I need it to it would be a wonder... The best I can say is that I have kept it dry for a long time...
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Tue 14 Jun, 2011 05:18 pm
@Fido,
You don't know much about sociopathic serial killers, do you? They do NOT have a conscience. They don't even see their victims as human beings. They only see them as an object they can use to get the gratification they seek. It, in no way, excuses them from what they do. They are not any less a human being with or without a conscience.
Fido
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 06:35 am
@Arella Mae,
Arella Mae wrote:

You don't know much about sociopathic serial killers, do you? They do NOT have a conscience. They don't even see their victims as human beings. They only see them as an object they can use to get the gratification they seek. It, in no way, excuses them from what they do. They are not any less a human being with or without a conscience.
I agree with you, and the want of a conscience makes them less than human and not worth human consideration... This difference between us killing them and them killing us is that we would have some moral reservations, some conscience...
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Thu 16 Jun, 2011 11:05 am
@Fido,
My point is NOT that they are less human. My point is you don't have to have a conscience to be a human being as you seem to think. Is someone in a vegatative state any less human considering there is NOTHING going on in that brain? No, it doesn't make them any less a human being.
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 12:39 pm
@Arella Mae,
or, for that matter, is anyone asleep considered anything less than human?
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 05:40 pm
@hamilton,
Wink
hamilton
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 06:04 pm
@Arella Mae,
Wink
0 Replies
 
hamilton
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Jun, 2011 06:05 pm
@Arella Mae,
Wink
(why are we winking at each other?)
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2021 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 12/07/2021 at 06:18:31