is the pledge unconstitutional?

it was worth that one...

We can all blame Joe McCarthy and his Commy watchers, and yes it is technically constitutional, u can always just not stand when they ask u 2 and say u r protesting

You should always resist nonsense like that, and it does not matter where you stand on politics and economics... It has everything to do with the free contest of ideas and thoughts and the putting forth of possible solutions to our problems; which are many... It demogogues can serve themselves by mis serving the people, trampling on social liberties, and throwing the many into fear of the government, or of spies among us, of police powers, they may delay revolution, and even destroy what union remains to us, but their victory will be bought with our pain which they may someday suffer as our vengeance...

What are people like that afraid of??? Is it change; because no one yet has managed to long forestall change... Look at the Church, at how many reformers and innocents they burned as heritics, and it was all in a wink of historical time... It may seem like an eon to those who must suffer the brutality of ignorance, and of all who think with force of arms to hold back the tide of time... There is no force like a better idea... New forms take over from old because they work... Old forms resurge because the new forms fail... The churches will never gain the hold on mankind that they once did... They may prostitute themselves for political power, but no one of any intelligence believes in them, and they do not believe in their true mission either... What church would have to advertize if they were doing God's work??? Their deeds would testify for them, and the flock would flock to them to be a part of something good, and larger and more meaningful than themselves...

It is meaning that failed forms rob from people whether it be religion, or government, or economy... People must put so much more into failing forms to keep them going in spite of all that a few are taking out in bulk, that they must sooner or later ask: What is it all for... What does it mean when people give their lives to a cause that gives them nothing... All forms demand sacrifice, yet, just as with the church, when it becomes clear that some people sacrifice while others feast upon their life's efforts, then the days of the form are numbered... Surely, some efforts need a focus, but no Martin Luther ever made a reformation without touching a common chord with people... Our society is failing, and no amount of reverence for the constitution, or pledges of allegience will ever change that fact... What good is a pledge of honor in a dishonorable society???...

We have become demoralized... The McCarthy witch hunts, and the way people stood back and watched them work showed our collective want of morality... The other Joe; Stalin made so much of that work possible... The fear attending the spread of Nuclear weapons played a part... But it was our demoralization, our abandonment long ago of principals that once made us free that made possible our enslavement... Our constitution made us only half free... Half free is the path to slavery, because slavery is easier, and less dangerous than freedom...There are no substitutes for courage or honor, but these are the marks of moral people...When people who do not believe in God or in the sanctity or immortality of the human soul give their oaths upon a book they no longer accept as fact; what is their oath worth... If they believe in their own honor they would pledge the lives of the family and of themselves and make them good, of forfeit them....

Money is honor and honor is money is this society... The one is simply exchanged for the other, and that is the whole point of election to higher office: to convince enough people that you are honorable so that the selling of it is worth the chance of not having it when needed... My honor is worth spit; but worth what it is, I do not trade upon it... I have shown myself corruptable, so my corruption offers no challenge to anyone... I don't wear a price tag, but everyone knows I have a price because this is a demoralized society, and to be honorable is more dangerous than being like everyone else, going along to get along... Buy me... I am a slave...I have been a slave for wages... I have been a slave for promises... I have been a slave to have the simple meaning of creation... How can I, whore that I am, demand honor of my fellow citizens???Liberty and justice for all has not meant anything in my entire life time... What can I do in this failed state to give it meaning???

The pledge is not, in and of itself, unconstitutional. Attempting to force someone to recite the pledge over their objections, however, in a public context, would be unconstitutional.

the crusades...?
they were kind of the churches idea.

i agree.

The constitution is an open contradiction... It does not bear comparison with itself... The laws that have flowed out of it are constitutional only because the court has agreed that they are so... It takes more than a constitution to make a people honorable, which is to say: Moral; but the constitution was a product of an immoral people trying to protect the gains and progress of their immorality...

We were willing to accept that immorality in the expectation of gain from it... Now that the gain has all been taken back from us will we now argue out of a morality we have never possessed and always shunned that we should be free, and have justice??? What justice does this people deserve???

We need revolution, but revolution is the act of a moral people done out of a sense of injured honor... From top to bottom we have been corrupted, and our corrosion is all the way to the heart...Who among us can cast the first stone... Who has not been raised in the exploitation of an environment that is not our true property, or of peoples on distant shores we have never met, and may never, now, because so many have been used to death???

The slaves we have made, and the lives we have robbed in the name of our liberty is the curse of humanity upon us... We cannot lift that curse without the courage of moral action, and we cannot show that courage without a hold on our moral root -lost from our grip long ago... When this nation is reduced to poverty and civil war, or locked into service to foreign masters will we then find our morality???

Clearly, the worst whores among us feeds off the multitude and say it is in the service of God... What moral leadership will the churches give to us??? To say what our morals are we must be able to say who we are, but so many of us live our lives in immitation, off the rack, following the fashion, all the while thinking we are individuals -that we cannot say who we are without reference to who we are like...Ethics is character, and we get our character out of a box, or a flat screen...

Spare me your bullshit . . . the confusion and misinformed drivel is bad enough, but you are also tediously prolix.

How is this for prolix: Shut the fuk up... The problem with dummasses like you is that everything comes out, but nothing gets in... You are like a tube of **** paste... Once you are squeezed out, you are trash... I would tell you to open your mind if you could show me you have one... Have a nice day...

A wonderful example of your prose . . . and your character . . . you misspelled ****, fuckwit . . .

On purpose dimwit... If you want to talk to me, say something nice since saying anything inspired is beyond you...

I told you long ago that you would be best advised not to respond to my posts at all. When you do respond to them with your predictable drivel derived from your profound ignorance, this is the kind of response you can expect.

The word: write comes from the German, Reisen, to tear, which early Germanic tongue also meant: To scratch, and in this fashion, from the scrathing of runes, it entered Old English... With actual writing, a word was required to express the concept of reading, of interpreting the meaning of the written word, and there people came up with: Read, in Old English: Ra'dan which means like the moder German equivilant: Rathen, To guess a riddle...

All you have to do is shut up, or shut up and read, though you may usually get my point with the first sentence, and the argument offered is not for you who know all and think nothing, but for those who may know less but are still capable of thought...

I get that it is a riddle to you... Just guess at it... If you write on a subject I will respond, if I so desire whether or not you accept that response... No power on this earth can make you read it, think about it, or respect it...

Nothing about you ever rises to the dignity of a riddle. Once again, if you don't want me to point out your ignorance and drivel, don't respond to my posts. You quoted me in your post, and then went off into a ridiculous fantasy based on your unsubstantiated claims about what the constitution is and isn't. If you want to indulge your witless fantasie, help yourself. But don't involve me in it by quoting me, because each time you do, i will point out your ignorance and the fantasies which derive therefrom.

Here is your riddle... What is the difference between my ass and your brain??? Answer: Distance...

OK, bright boy, you have alleged that the constitution contradicts itself. So if you aren't a total **** for brains, you should easily be able to quote the parts of the constitution which contradict one another.

However, i suspect that your only interest is in hurling schoolyard insults.

You do this all the time, Setanta, even though your own postings are full of errors/spelling mistakes.

Hypocrite.

whoa... clash of the a2k titans...

So Fido, where's that alleged contradiction?

OK, bright boy, [whose only interest is in hurling schoolyard insults], you have alleged that the constitution contradicts itself. So if you aren't a total **** for brains, you [whose only interest is in hurling schoolyard insults] should easily be able to quote the parts of the constitution which contradict one another.