Kids in Prison

His crime sounds more like manslaughter than premeditated murder.

It is difficult. Over here we have something called IPP - Indeterminate Public Protection which can amount to a life sentence - or might not.

The person has to serve his whole tariff - so if he gets ten years, he has to serve ten years - as opposed to most prisoners who have to serve half of their sentence in custody and then are released and are on licence or parole for the other half.

But with IPP - they may not get out after serving their tarriff. They may not ever get out - it's totally up to the parole board. So they might be in prison on a seven or eight year sentence which can turn into 99 years- they just don't know.

And these people do really lose hope and become institutionalized.

I was just talking to one guy the other day who keeps getting put in the seg unit (care and separation) for breaking rules like having a mobile phone. He's IPP - he's in for robbery - and he hurt, but didn't kill, someone in the course of a robbery.
And I asked him why he didn't just behave and get his sentence over - he's 25 - he has his whole life ahead of him and he said, 'My sentence is essentially ninety-nine years. They can keep me here for 99 years if they feel like it.'

So then I asked him who he called on his mobile phones - was he using them for criminal activity. He said, 'No - I call my family.' I said, 'Then why don't you just follow the rules and use the prison phone and he said, 'Because they listen to and monitor those phones - I'm never supposed to be able to have a private conversation for maybe ninety-nine years?'

I don't know - one part of me thinks it's sort of cruel and unusual punishment to be able to hold this carrot out and then withdraw it. If a guy serves his sentence - that should be it.
But then again, the victim and the crime do often get forgotten in these situations. If someone lost their life due to someone else's deliberate actions - what IS the appropriate punishment?

Like that sixteen year old kid in Florida that killed those two British tourists. He shot them point blank after they'd already emptied their pockets for him.
And he'd been out of jail for another offence less than twelve hours when he robbed and killed them.
I don't think there is an easy answer here.

This always reminds me of the 14 year old kid who took a gun to school, killed two students and injured thirteen others. He was raised in a rural area in Maryland with many friends around, but due to the divorce of his parents, he was thrown into a tough, racially diversified area in southern California. He was a loner, bullied in school, his father worked long hours and the kid was alone at home playing violent video games where he released his anger over being bullied and beaten by his classmates.

One day he snapped, took his fathers gun, took it to school and went on
a rampage. He's serving now a 50 year sentence without parole.

Children's brains do not mature until they are in their mid twenties.Therefore, in most cases, I think that life sentences for minors is excessive............with one caveat. In the case of a particularly heinous crime, involving torture, multiple murder, etc. it seems to me that the public needs to be protected from such people.

It is a judgement call. And I would not want to be the one who makes the decision.

A question: are minors treated exactly the same as adults under US laws?

I am definitely no expert in this field, but my understanding is that minors (in my country, anyway) are treated differently.

In any case, while I believe that crimes like murder should have serious consequences, locking a 14 year old for life is an excessive punishment to any criminal act. Is the rehabilitation of such a young offender not considered in cases like this?

It seems punishment for children becomes more harsh with time, here, olga.

You have to wonder why kids are killing. Remember those two boys (age 10) who killed a 2 yr old? What's going on? And I think it's through all classes of society. Are we getting sicker, as a race? Are we indulging our kids too much? Neglecting them? Letting them watch violent shows? What is the root of all this juvenile crime?

My personal, uneducated, view, is that the causes are multiple. - First, I think kids have done such things in past generations, maybe not so often or maybe not so well reported. - In today's society, kids are fed junk food and processed food, in many cases exclusively. This has to affect body chemistry and the mind. Then, kids are saturated with information and situations they are too young to process. This all started a couple of generations back, so, the grownups of today were raised in similar fashion, though not so accelerated. As each generation is exposed to all this at a quickening pace, kids will act out what they are given in life.

I think you make some good points - I'd not even thought about the processed food. Sad, eh?

A woman named Johanna Budwig worked with children and nutrition. Her special diet she credited with turning many children away from juvenile delinquency.

In the case you mention, it doesn't seem warranted for life in prison - assuming the details of what is stated is accurate (not necessarily what you wrote, but is this coming from the accused?) as they were horseplaying. In most circumstances it doesn't seem right for a child to be in prison for the rest of his life for reasons that others mentioned.

However, this quote bothers me (if it was determined this kid actually pre-mediatated murder) as opposed to manslaughter -



What chance does the victim have?

I once found a website online of poetry written by teens on death row. It was a shocking experience (no pun intended here). I don't think teens are put on death row any more in the US.

All those resources spent to keep him alive when a bullet would free up the money to be spent on someone who hasnt broken the law and is starving to death .

It was interesting to me the way that was handled. The boys each received 8 year sentences and a guarantee of lifetime anonymity. So when they were each released, at age 18, they both received new identities and were put into a sort of witness protection program -- mostly to protect them from retribution by the public given the horrific brutality of the murder.

One of them, Venables, is back in prison for "extremely serious allegations," and is eligible for parole sometime this year, I think. The young victim's mother was upset and spoke out about Venables' neighbors being at risk since they didn't know his true identity.

Hard to know what the right thing to do is in these types of cases.

Generally, minors ARE treated quite differently in Oz...however, occasionally, for very serious crimes, like murder, they are tried in adult courts and subjected to adult sentencing. Normally, in such cases, if imprisoned, they are held in juvenile centres until they are 18, when they are moved to adult prisons.

From what I heard that is very similar to the US. I think what we are seeing - is that more minors are becoming involved in more serious crimes and more horrific ones - resulting in the hammer coming down harder and harder on these kids.

Well, giving that crime rates are falling in the US (and more generally, I think, in western countries?) I suspect it is more that the US is generally reacting in harsher and harsher ways to crime (you have an amazing percentage of people in prison compared with most similar countries) than that juvenile crime is worsening...though I could, of course, be wrong.

I do have a sense that the US has a much more highly developed juvenile crime gang structure than most western countries, though...so perhaps some extra and more serious juvenile crime is coming through from that?

I worked in juvie (juvenile corrections) for 3 years, but couldn't take the stress. Juvenile cases need to be more treatment/therapy-focused and less about punishment. Teenagers who are going through a rebellious stage often simply don't respond to punishment. Often as not, it just makes their rage against authority even worse. They wear the punishment as a badge of courage.

That said, I don't recall ever meeting a therapist who I thought knew his/her ass from a hole in the ground, wrt how to deal effectively with teens. Not that I do, mind you.