Court Sentences Members of Neo-Nazi Band

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Court Sentences Members of Neo-Nazi Band

BERLIN (Reuters) - A German court has found members of a neo-Nazi rock group guilty inciting racial hatred through the lyrics to its songs, the first case of its kind in the country.

The 38-year-old lead singer of the band "Landser" was sentenced Monday to three years and four months in prison, while two other members received suspended sentences of 21 and 22 months after a trial lasting six months.

The band had "massively disrupted society's cohesiveness" with its song lyrics inciting racial hatred, the court ruled.

Prosecutions have often been brought against individuals under laws banning Nazi propaganda and promotion of racial hatred, but this is the first time a collective prosecution of this kind has been brought against a musical group.

Lawyers for the members of Landser, an old German name that means soldier, said they were considering an appeal.

What do you think of this? Do you think that it was appropriate for the German government to do?

Do you think that the U.S. would be able to prosecute those groups whose songs promote hate of any type?

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If so, let's prosecute Toby Keith for promoting our "putting our boots in the ass" of innocent Iraqi women and children.

Get my point? Where does it stop if you apply it fairly and evenly everywhere?

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Germany has a healthy interest in keeping Nazi sympathy in check. In the USA we have hate crime laws. Neither law covers all forms of racism or hate. I think we can live with them.

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I would compare the rules in Germany re expressions of Nazism to the rules in the US re cross burning. Free expression, yes, but not at all times in all places...

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I don't even think they should have those goofy parental advisory stickers on the cds, much less persecution for lyrics!

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If the lyrics are telling people to break the law, then I've got no problem with the prosecution.

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Wilso wrote:

If the lyrics are telling people to break the law, then I've got no problem with the prosecution.

So you are saying that Hank Williams Jr. should be arrested for telling folks to smoke pot?

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Re: Court Sentences Members of Neo-Nazi Band

Phoenix32890 wrote:

What do you think of this? Do you think that it was appropriate for the German government to do?

a) it was not the German government, but a (superior) court that did such.

b) courts here in Germany can only act, if there are appropriate laws. These laws only become laws, because they are legitimized by our elected Federal parliament.

c) despite that we indedd have laws against expressing anything connected with Nazis (after World War II Germany outlawed every aspect of Nazism, right down to swastika lapel badges), this band was convicted for being an organized criminal association ("self-appointed terrorists with electric guitars" the court called them).

Since it was the first time performers had ever been convicted under Draconian German laws on organized crime that are normally used to smash drug gangs, it will be interesting, how high courts see this.

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Wilso wrote:

If the lyrics are telling people to break the law, then I've got no problem with the prosecution.

The 38-year-old leader of the band was convicted as "gang boss" for writing lyrics that inspired fans to feel hatred and contempt toward non-Germans and anyone who disagreed with Nazi doctrines.

The court described the group as a danger to public safety and said they bore some responsibility for beatings and arson attacks in recent years against people of many non-white ethnicities.
["Curl up and die, nigger / You're just a lousy piece of **** / You're the end, you're just filth / You're scum and you've got to go."]
Judges swept aside defense arguments that it was up to listeners to make their own judgment about the songs.

To evade anti-Nazi laws, the band had the CDs made in other countries where the swastika is not proscribed. An album called "Go for the Enemy" was recorded in June 2000 in a London studio.

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'Landser' really meant a normal soldier in the 30-years-war and later became the synonym for any simple soldier in WWII.

After WWII, however, this name is strongly connected with a fiction/non-fiction booklet serie, published nearly twice monthly, which is extremely neo-nazi connected, war-mongering, glorifying the Germans in WWII, the Wehrmacht and they are saying generally, how innocent all that (and especially we Germans) had been.

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No. In a free country, people have a right to express their views, however hateful they are.

The German Basic Law begins
with the sentence: "Die Wuerde des Menschen ist unantastbar." ("The dignity of man is inviolable.")

Freedom of Speech has to subordinate to this principle. It's guaranteed in article 5 of the Basic Law. N.B. 5(2):

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(2) These rights are limited by the provisions of the general laws, the provisions of law for the protection of youth and by the right to inviolability of personal honor.

Insulting someone is not protected by freedom of the speech and a criminal offence as well - since we have a criminl law, btw, which started (as written down versions) more than 500 years ago.

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I don't even think they should have those goofy parental advisory stickers on the cds.

Child of the Light- I disagree. As much as I hate curtailment of freedom, for adults, I think that minors need to be protected. Parents have a right to know, and to supervise, what CD their YOUNG children buy. (I am talking about a 13 year old, less so for a 17 year old).

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then Pheonix their parents should be looking in the packages they bring from the store...Make the parents responsible...that is the key.

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Make the parents responsible...that is the key.

willow_tl - Absolutely. Too often parents have abrogated their responsibility as guides & mentors to their children.

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IMO there should be a distinction of freedom of speech and making money.

In other words I think it'd be interesting to allow speech that advocates violence or crime, but to deny the right to capitalize off of it.

My motivation for this is that I believe lots of said "speech" is not principled and is a "shock-jock" attempt at making money.

By removing money from the equation the principled speech will remain and those who advocate violence only for profit would not do so.

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Phoenix32890 wrote:

Quote:
I don't even think they should have those goofy parental advisory stickers on the cds.

Child of the Light- I disagree. As much as I hate curtailment of freedom, for adults, I think that minors need to be protected. Parents have a right to know, and to supervise, what CD their YOUNG children buy. (I am talking about a 13 year old, less so for a 17 year old).

I see what you are saying, but some of the cds get tagged with it, and don't really even deserve it. Guns 'N' Roses- Appetite for Destruction has the sticker, which it doesn't deserve.

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I think thatthe actions, in the BRD, were appropriate. While I agree with BPB's (whom I am ever envious of..sigh...why did I give up my musical dreams and get real jobs?) comment about Toby Keith wholeheardtedly. My personal solution to the Toby Keith problem would be to plonk him down in the middle of Downtown Baghdad with Arabic copies of his lyrics. Ahhh Christmas brings out the finest in me! Twisted Evil

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Re: Court Sentences Members of Neo-Nazi Band

Phoenix32890 wrote:

What do you think of this? Do you think that it was appropriate for the German government to do?

I really would be interested in some answers to the original first question, too. :wink:

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hobitbob wrote:

I think thatthe actions, in the BRD, were appropriate. While I agree with BPB's (whom I am ever envious of..sigh...why did I give up my musical dreams and get real jobs?) comment about Toby Keith wholeheardtedly. My personal solution to the Toby Keith problem would be to plonk him down in the middle of Downtown Baghdad with Arabic copies of his lyrics. Ahhh Christmas brings out the finest in me!

I am surrounded by millions of Toby Keiths and I would not be suprised if he was cool with that idea.

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Good. Anyone who is about to be ripped to bloody shreds should go into it with a smile on their faces. Even if it is the grin of stupidity!

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Court Sentences Members of Neo-Nazi Band

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