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Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 04:40 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
She should not have been there. Her minders were playing games with her well being.
I would not go that far, but unless she is an idiot she knew years ago that walking into a huge middle Eastern Mob is sometimes going to end with getting manhandled if you are a female. Most female journalists who cover the region will flat up tell you it is going to happen once in awhile. Making a big deal about it, using it as an excuse to take extensive time off work, and calling Egyptians aggravated gang rapists when they aggressively molest is way over the top. What this tells me is that Logan is too fragile to have been in that place, and I blame her, not the network, for her being there. She insisted upon being there, she had to know that this kind of thing might happen, SHE should seriously consider taking a job that is more suitable to her nature (the one she is advertising now, not the macho woman that she normally sells herself as)
hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 04:46 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
She's not been willing to give enough details to satisfy folks like Hawkeye, who'd dismiss her experience anyway
She made a big charge towards the Egyptians, she has a duty to explain what she is talking about when she uses the word "rape" as she did, a word that is in this modern era very poorly defined. . It sure looks like she is trying to convey the impression that she was repeatidly penetrated, which based upon accounts of other female journalists who have encountered problems in the region is almost certainly not what happened. If she is painting the Egyptians in an unfair light based upon what happened somebody has a duty to come forward and make clear that Logan is exaggerating her account of the events.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 04:48 pm
@hawkeye10,
Her employers described her injuries as "internal" and "severe" and the assault "brutal" and "sustained". You have no basis to say her account is exaggerated, you merely assume it is. Her clothes were torn to pieces and the mob that assaulted her numbered in the hundreds by all accounts, this was not similar to the other gropings that happened (such as to Lynsey Addario), she was hospitalized afterwards. This was not just a bit of groping, journalists have a "code of silence" about that kind of thing but felt that this was something different that they had to speak out about.

Unless everyone involved is lying this was not your average groping. You fecklessly assume it is because you instinctively take sides against women regardless of not having any evidence upon which to do so.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 04:51 pm
@Robert Gentel,
I don't know about that Bob.

But it's a nothing thing really in terms of the situation in the region.

I cannot see why she gave the interview. What do you think was the point of her doing so?

Robert Gentel
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 04:54 pm
@spendius,
She says what her point is in the interview, which you'd know if you'd bothered to read it before criticizing her for giving it.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 05:00 pm
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
I would not go that far,


I was putting it mildly hawk.

Quote:
What this tells me is that Logan is too fragile to have been in that place.


Which is obvious and her bosses should have known that. I don't blame her for being there. I blame the network and their silly PC agenda.

I blame her for giving this interview.
spendius
 
  -3  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 05:03 pm
@Robert Gentel,
I'm not bothered what her justifications are for being in such a place. I can make them up myself. It's a man's job to report such events.
hawkeye10
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 05:09 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
Which is obvious and her bosses should have known that. I don't blame her for being there. I blame the network and their silly PC agenda.

You have to consider that Logan has a long history of running over her bosses, and also that she has along history of using her aggressive sexuality to get chummy with the troops when she is out in the field.

This is a case of live by the sword, die by the sword. She long ago gave up any legit right to play the traditional feminine victim. She will get away with this, because we are conditioned to nether challenge her version of events nor question the legitimacy of the claim of victimhood, which is sad. And it makes America look bad.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 05:19 pm
@hawkeye10,
We have our own versions hawk. Tin hats or headscarves and a flak jacket and not another woman in sight. There's no cachet unless it is dangerous. Rushing into it, as Katie Couric did, is provocative given the circumstances. Bordering on patronising.

It's silliness spaghetti.
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 05:23 pm
It's not just foreign reporters, though. Sexual harassment of women in Egypt is widespread and the recent 'revolution' did nothing to diminish it. I don't understand how anyone thought it would.
Robert Gentel
 
  4  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 05:35 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
It's a man's job to report such events.


Nonsense, male journalists have been killed covering conflict and nobody bothers to question their place there, it makes no sense at all to say that women shouldn't be there just because something bad happened to them. It's their lives at stake and if they wish to endanger it they have every right to that men do.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 05:43 pm
@Irishk,
It's like there's two universes here.

The USA has spent 3 billion a year for the last 30 years - Spendi, how much has the UK contributed? - ensuring not only that sexual harassment of women in Egypt would be widespread but also that torture and killing would be widespread, and still the hand wringing goes on about the failures of the locals to seize this grand opportunity.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 06:33 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
It's like there's two universes here
'

You are Egyptian? If so is the peace treaty with Israel a goner?
0 Replies
 
dlowan
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 09:02 pm
@Irishk,
Irishk wrote:

It's not just foreign reporters, though. Sexual harassment of women in Egypt is widespread and the recent 'revolution' did nothing to diminish it. I don't understand how anyone thought it would.



Hmmm...not so sure. I noticed lots of women in the crowds of protesters....and they did not seem to be amongst fundamental Islamists.

There has been a solid women's rights movement going along quietly in many parts of the Middle East. I would hope that these women feel more empowered after such an (admittedly very limited) victory.

hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 10:21 pm
Quote:
Before the assault, Ms. Logan said, she did not know about the levels of harassment and abuse that women in Egypt and other countries regularly experienced. “I would have paid more attention to it if I had had any sense of it,” she said. “When women are harassed and subjected to this in society, they’re denied an equal place in that society. Public spaces don’t belong to them. Men control it. It reaffirms the oppressive role of men in the society.”
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/29/business/media/29logan.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1&hp

How many ways is this alarming if true?

1) that she is a globe trotting high profile journalist and has been for years, often in the middle east, and she does not know such a basic fact of the locales that she is reporting from

2) that it appears her employer did not do any due diligence to make sure that their employee had this basic very important for her safety information

3) that her fellow female journalist peers, who have said that they are well aware of this because they or people the know have experience it, never had a single conversation with Logan to make sure that she knew.

and there is 4) which I think is highly probable...Logan is lying because it suits her victim story line, as well as her crusader for women victims role. I say this because Logans assertions are very difficult to believe....
0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 10:54 pm
@dlowan,
dlowan wrote:
Hmmm...not so sure. I noticed lots of women in the crowds of protesters....and they did not seem to be amongst fundamental Islamists.

There has been a solid women's rights movement going along quietly in many parts of the Middle East. I would hope that these women feel more empowered after such an (admittedly very limited) victory.

I hope you're right. I've followed it somewhat closely and haven't found too much hopeful news, though. I think the women were tolerated during the original uprising because the men knew they were in the media spotlight and behaved accordingly.

Here's an overview from al-Jazeera (although they didn't cover the women's rally that was held in Tahrir Square on International Women's Day when many women were harassed, groped and even beaten)...

Quote:
The new Egypt: Leaving women behind

Throughout the uprising, women were at the forefront of the street protests.

However, they have largely kept quiet about their gender rights in a country where they have faced rampant discrimination and received little legal protection against widespread violence and sexual abuse.

They were careful not to display any intention of wanting to advance one group's rights over those of another.

"We did not speak of our gender rights during these protests because it was not the right time. We spoke for the political and social rights of all Egyptians. If we were to campaign for our rights as women in parallel with the revolution's national goal, that would have been called political opportunism," says Hala Kamal, an assistant professor at Cairo University and a member of the Women in Memory Forum.

But only days into the post-Mubarak era, many women's rights activists have begun to feel suspicious that the national umbrella they rallied under, whose slogan was democracy, equality and freedom for all Egyptians, may be leaving them out.

Their disillusionment began when no women were selected by the military council to be among the 10-member constitutional committee responsible for making constitutional revisions.

Another disheartening setback that raises questions about the future of women's rights in Egypt is the return of sexual harassment to the streets.


More here
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2011 10:59 pm
@Irishk,
Word is that so far Al- Jazeera (Arab) has not covered the Logan assertions at all, but after Sunday they will need to say something. It will be very interesting to see which way they go, somewhere between joining the Victim Logan Fan Club and being offended at her exaggeration would be my guess. This could get big, as her behavior will certainly not go over well in most corners of the Arab world.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2011 04:58 am
@JTT,
That's absurdly over-simplified JTT.
revelette
 
  0  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2011 07:16 am
Reconciliation between Fatah and Hamas is partly the result of efforts of members of the post-Mubarak government

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 29 Apr, 2011 08:44 am
@spendius,
Stark facts often are, Spendi. So how much did the UK kick in to keep a vicious dictator in place for 30 years and tell us again why the UK has decided that all of a sudden Gaddafi is bad bad bad and he has to go?

Could it be that brutal dictators are A-okay as long as they don't upset UK business interests' applecart?
 

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