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Tunesia, Egyt and now Yemen: a domino effect in the Middle East?

 
 
Irishk
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2011 07:35 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
There's jokers firing off anti-aircraft cannons just for the hell of it.


I saw that. Looked like something out of an old WWII movie.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2011 09:37 pm
@High Seas,
Please don't suggest that.

I am a Kurtzwielian who views true AI with a utopian prism.

If JTT is an AI program, then the dystopians are right.

He's a human alright, but he might fail a Turing test.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2011 09:50 pm
@spendius,
Chomsky is by no means a "big cheese" in America, despite the fact that someone in this forum thumbed you down for questioning his cheesian status.

He is truly a big Gouda in the rather narrow field of linguistics, at least he was at one time. For all I know, his former findings have been dismissed and mocked by current experts.

He's brilliant, but when it comes to political, economic and social theory and practice, he's a rank amateur, and a silly one at that.

Lefties with some measure of education love to invoke Chomsky.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 12:34 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
For all I know, his former findings have been dismissed and mocked by current experts.


What a weird thing to say. If I may paraphrase you just said "I have no idea about this but maybe it happened".

Quote:
Lefties with some measure of education love to invoke Chomsky.

I guess there are no educated lefties on this thread - no-one invoked Chomsky.
High Seas
 
  0  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 03:23 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

If JTT is an AI program, then the dystopians are right.

He's a human alright, but he might fail a Turing test.

That was my conclusion also - it's a human of sorts failing the Turing test. Kurtzweil AI programming and DaSciTex wouldn't help in his case.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 10:32 am
@High Seas,
I have no doubt I would fail a Turing test. I certainly hope so. A machine can't do witticisms.

One couldn't decipher "Jack and Jill went up the hill" except as a male and a female person having come to a conclusion on an unspecified matter of sufficient importance to get into the folklore canon, at the culmination, or acme, of an incline. "Jill fell down with half-a-crown" ( about $50 in new money) would completely stump the thing. As would all Shakespeare's nose jokes. Who would think of going up a hill to fetch water. Hilltops are the driest places around.

Mr Turing was just milking the science fiction fanatic market established by far superior intelligences.
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 10:43 am
@spendius,
Mr Turing became an atheist at 14 and the rest of his theory follows as night follows day. Constitutional experts cannot dispute that he committed suicide.

I generally avoid authors who have done that. One might unconsciously pick up the inclination and the better the work is the greater is the risk.

0 Replies
 
Irishk
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 11:01 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
"Jill fell down with half-a-crown"...

Is that the official English version, or an extended version? I always thought it was 'Jack fell down and broke his crown', but maybe that's just the American interpretaton. In which case, Jack would probably sue the owner of the hill.
0 Replies
 
revelette
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 11:04 am
@msolga,
Quote:
Muammar Qaddafi is still trying to play the al-Qaeda card, arguing that his murderous regime is what stands between Europe and the emigration to it of thousands of Muslim extremists. He told Turkish television that his regime is a key element of stability in the Eastern Mediterranean, and its fall would bring chaos there, including to Israel.

So, who knew? Qaddafi is the guarantor of Israel’s security and that of Europe? It is a desperate attempt to induce caution with regard the growing move in the West toward some sort of military intervention to prevent Tripoli from massacring the rebels.

Interestingly, Qaddafi’s language seems calculated to appeal to the far right in Europe and Israel, which views all Muslims as potential terrorists. It is an attempt to build a Qaddafi-National Front-Likud-Peter King front against the democracy movement in the Middle East. Qaddafi also sent an envoy Wednesday to the military council that is running Egypt. Since the pro-rebel tribe Awlad Ali dominates Salloum, the Egyptian city on the Libyan border, the rebels presumably are getting some supplies from their Egyptian allies. Qaddafi is probably keen to cut them off. His fear-mongering about al-Qaeda might have some purchase with right wing officers such as Omar Suleiman.

Aljazeera Arabic points out that the rebel forces, far from being “al-Qaeda,” are mostly disgruntled youth from major Libyan tribes such as Zintan. The keywords preferred by statements from such tribes are secular ones– the nation, the people, the army. Muslim fundamentalists speak of the “umma” or the ‘community of believers’ when they talk about the nation, whereas those imbued with civil discourse use terms like the ‘watan’ (originally a translation of the French ‘patrie’ or fatherland), and speak of ‘the people’ (sha’b) rather than ‘the believers.’ It is this civil language that the rebels speak, in all the communiques I’ve seen.

Pro-Qaddafi forces are being accused by residents of Zawiya, an important oil town to the west of Tripoli, of pursuing a scorched earth policy in the city, according to the BBC. Some 50 tanks and 150 armored vehicles are said to be indiscriminately wreaking havoc on the infrastructure.

Aljazeera Arabic is showing scenes, nevertheless, of defiant, chanting crowds in Zawiya during the past two days, at times dispersed by live ammunition directed at them by Qaddafi’s men. It is reporting as of early morning Wednesday that there are still resistance fighters in the central square of the town, which has not been completely subdued by forces from Tripoli. It remains mysterious as to why such heavy armored forces are having such trouble taking the central square; presumably they are facing heavy rocket-propelled grenade fire; the rebels have shown that they can kill tanks that way. An interviewee from Zawiya says by telephone that there are no phone lines and there is no internet in the city, and residents cannot now get out.

CNN’s intrepid Ben Wedeman reports that western towmns like Zuara are under rebel control and are helping Zawiya.

e also reports a major pro-Qaddaffi attack Wednesday aftwrnoon on Ras Lanuf.

Aljazeera Arabic is also reporting a major battle mid-day Wednesday at the gates of Ras Lanuf, including artillery duels, between rebels and pro-Qaddafi forces. Rebel forces continue to hold a position 20 km west of the town. On early Wednesday morning sounds of explosions and heavy fighting were audible in Ras Lanuf, continuing on and off subsequently. Presumably Qaddafi forces in the nearby town of Ben Jawad are also defending it from rebel attack. The rebel technique of continuing to advance on Ben Jawad and to threaten Qaddafi’s hometown of Sirt, i.e. of carrying the fight to the enemy, had probably blunted so far the ability of the pro-Qaddafi forces to attack effectively in Ras Lanuf, though it is subject to aerial bombardment. Aljazeera is showing film of a mosque in the city hit by an air raid, another piece of evidence pointing to a desperate, scorched-earth policy on Qaddafi’s part.

3News in New Zealand has an excellent report on the way the rebels in Ras Lanuf and to its west have gotten hold of some tanks and shoulder-held anti-aircraft missiles, and are showing not only more firepower but more discipline at the Ben Jawad front.

Aljazeera English interviews a spokesman for the Benghazi-based Libyan national council who insists that Qaddafi must leave the country but raises the possibility that the National Council would not pursue legal measures against him and his sons if he did depart.


Links at the source.

Perhaps a window has been opened and Qaddafi can go through it sparing more bloodshed and the necessity of any outside intervention.

Qadhafi plane overflies Greece

Quote:
ATHENS: A private plane belonging to embattled Libyan leader Muoammar Qadhafi with unknown passengers aboard crossed Greek airspace en route to Egypt on Wednesday, a Greek defence ministry source said.

“A private plane of Qadhafi has crossed Greek airspace en route to Egypt,” the ministry source told AFP, adding: “We do not know who is on board.” A Greek air force source said the plane was a Libyan Airlines Falcon 900 that normally carries VIPs, though the pilot denied that dignitaries were on board.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 11:07 am
@revelette,
Gaddafi is not sane; to believe anything he says only shows how uninformed one is. When any leader kills his/her own citizens, and then says "my people love me," there is insanity at play.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 01:33 pm
What I would like is that Saudi Arabia go thru this as well as they are the main source of Al Qaeda and Taliban funding. They are mis-using treasury wealth to fund other causes which could be better spent to better the Saudi citizen lives. The Wahhabis and the thousand-member royal family are creating fundamentalism throughout the Middle East.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 01:42 pm
@talk72000,
talk, I don't think so. I believe most Muslims wish to live with freedom and peace - like most humans. Their form of democracy might not be the same as western democracy, but that's their choice.
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 02:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
What I am saying is that I hope the ordinary Saudi arabs wake up as their royal family and the Wahhabis are wasting their money. But being so oil rich it may not be possible.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 02:17 pm
@talk72000,
"Wasting their money" is an euphemism without much in the way of reality.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 02:50 pm
My TV has started leaning over alarmingly in recent days.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 03:01 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
When any leader kills his/her own citizens, [4 dead in Ohio] and then says "my people love me," there is insanity at play. [I think Nixon said something similar, but that only proves you theory, eh, CI?] Wink
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 03:06 pm
@talk72000,
Quote:
They are mis-using treasury wealth to fund other causes which could be better spent to better the Saudi citizen lives.


They don't have the largest military in the world. They aren't anywhere close in terms of terrorist actions compared to the biggest terrorist nation in the world. They don't have a massive CIA that foments near the amount of trouble that the same nation referred to above, does. They don't have arms sales that are, what is it, bigger than the next four or five countries in the world.

This is only a tiny sampling, Talk, but you think they are misusing treasury wealth. Holy Smokes, Jeb!

cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 03:08 pm
@spendius,
Sit up straight, spendi! It'll correct.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 04:19 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Gaddafi is not sane; to believe anything he says only shows how uninformed one is. When any leader kills his/her own citizens, and then says "my people love me," there is insanity at play.


I don't agree, unless you have an unusual definition of insanity in mind.

History is pretty clear that tyrants from Tamerlane to Naopoleon, to Stalin, Mao and now Mugabe, Castro & Chavez have all encouraged cults surrounding their special nature as saviors of their people and, each to some degree exhibited belief in their own myths. Nothing surprising here - we all, to some degree, become the principal consumers of our own propaganda.

I's less insanity than it is a manifestation of Oscar Wilde's point in his very insightful work, "A picture of Dorian Gray".
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Mar, 2011 04:22 pm
@georgeob1,
I'm talking about contemporary times; we really don't know what all those tyrants you listed had said and done that equates to Gaddafi. Maybe, you have better sources that proves your point. I'd like to see them.

I'm using the standard definition of insane.

Quote:
in·sane
   /ɪnˈseɪn/ Show Spelled[in-seyn] Show IPA
–adjective
1.
not sane; not of sound mind; mentally deranged.
2.
of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a person who is mentally deranged: insane actions; an insane asylum.
3.
utterly senseless: an insane plan.

Origin:
1550–60; < Latin insānus. See in-3 , sane

—Related forms
in·sane·ly, adverb
in·sane·ness, noun
pseu·do·in·sane, adjective

—Synonyms
1. demented; lunatic, crazed, crazy; maniacal. 3. foolish, irrational. See mad.
0 Replies
 
 

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