Things that sound wrong when pronounced right.

this might be pretty local, but the auto industry is pretty big down this way (Windsor/Detroit), when people mention who they work for they might say Chrysler or GM (General Motors), or Fords (Ford Motor Company), why the "s", does Ford not sound right (I work for Ford vs I work for Fords)

a black friend of ours who worked for GM always said GMs, but she was the only person (apart from her other family members) i was aware of who said it that way

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My grandmother, according to family legend, was Henry Ford's secretary in the WAY early, well before the Model T, days, when they only had one. Cash was short, and they offered her stock for part of her wage. She had mouths to feed, so she opted for money instead. Damn, Grandma Louise, take the stock....

We moved away from Michigan when I was 16, but saying "Ford's" does dimly ring kind of a bell, maybe because it was clearly Henry Ford's company. and he was such a large presence in the city and the country and the company Much more I guess than Walter Chrysler.

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There's a small street in the Bronx called FtEly Avenue. It's pronounced fuhteely. Go figure.

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@MontereyJack,

Ha. That's pretty funny. I'm getting upset, as i so often do. But your continued pissing and moaning on this subject is not evidence that you have gotten upstet? Who are "they?" The Dick van Patten family of San Diego? That's what David Letterman would have said, back in the day. You've heard of Dave--he's a funny guy, he has a sense of humor . . . unlike you.

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The lower east side (again NYC) has Houston Street--pronounced house-ton. Go figure.

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They have some very odd pronunciations in Norfolk, Virginia, too . . . house is one of them. I would not attempt to ender the pronunciation here . . . you gotta hear it to believe it . . .

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@boomerang,

boomerang wrote:

About a year ago they renamed a street by my house Cesar Chavez.

One day I was telling someone where something was and I said:
Turn left on SAY-zar CHAH-vess and everyone looked at me like I was crazy.

It seems that the "proper" way to pronounce the name, according to the locals,
is SEE-sur shuh-VEZ.

boomer, it is sound reasoning to be fonetic. (no pun)
The first syllable of the first name is: "Ce. . .".
That can logically be pronounced with either
a long E (like see) or a short E (like bet).

By no logic (other than the emotion of following the parade, without analysis)
can the first vowel be twisted from an E into an A.
Those 2 vowels have different sounds
and thay shoud not be deemed to duplicate one another.

David

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Miami, Oklahoma is pronounced "my-AM-uh."

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@djjd62,

djjd62 wrote:

this might be pretty local, but the auto industry is pretty big down this way (Windsor/Detroit), when people mention who they work for they might say Chrysler or GM (General Motors), or Fords (Ford Motor Company), why the "s", does Ford not sound right (I work for Ford vs I work for Fords)

That is reminiscent of the Bronx, NY
having been named after the Jonas Bronck's land.

David

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..and why is Arkansas pronounced ARKEN-SAH and not ARKAEN-SAS?

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K, I'm really not trying to stir the pot...
I speak a bit of french, I read even more, but I always assume forte was the italian pronunciation because it was derived from the musical term. I realize the word means the same in both languages.

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@Intrepid,

I have heard of people, wanting to make their pooch's name sound elegant, naming him Phideaux!

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I remember back when I was young and living in Oklahoma. There were these commercials on TV where the announcer would read off a long list of towns where whatever product they were selling, was sold. Most of the town's names were derived from Native American words. They always made a total mess of it. We thought it was hilarious.

When I moved to the west coast I found myself making a total mess out of all the town names based on Native American words. Everyone thought it was hilarious.

I thought about this a bit and think I finally figured it out -- the Oklahoma tribes seemed to accent the first syllable of the word, the Oregon tribe accented a syllable somewhere in the middle of the word: it isn't the WILL-a-mette River, it's the Will-AM-ette River; it isn't TUA-latin, it's Tu-AL-itan.

My guess is that it was someone on the west coast reading those Oklahoma names.

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Near me there is a river called the Alafia. I called it al-ah'-fee-ah. I was told by a native that it was pronounced Al'-ah-fie. I have heard the river's name pronounced both ways, even al-ah-fie'-ah, and still do not know which is the correct pronunciation.

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@Setanta,

I never thought "forte" as coming from the French, but from Italian, where you DO pronounce the last vowel.
So it's natural for an English speaker to build a diphthong around the "e", and pronounce "for-tay" instead of "for-teh", as an Italian would.

(Written before realizing there was a somewhat heated exchange between Setanta and Monterey Jack)

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@MontereyJack,

MontereyJack wrote:

I suspect they're not impressed with you, either.

thank you

I just snorted a considerable volume of tea

I will be billing you for the dry cleaning

Laughing

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I always have to laugh when I hear the word "foyer" (fo-yay) pronounced fo-yer. Smile

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@CalamityJane,

Quote:

..and why is Arkansas pronounced ARKEN-SAH and not ARKAEN-SAS?

Because that's how people say it.
If people said "ar-CAN-sis", that would become standard.
Language is driven by Usage.
Usage creates pronunciation.
Pronunciations become standard ......until enough people start using a different pronunciation. It doesn't have anything to do with meaning or origin.
Usage can also create meaning, but that's another thread.
Eva used one of my favorites -
In Oklahoma, Miami is myAMuh.
In Florida - Miami is myAMme.
In New York - Houston is HOUSEtin.
In Texas - Houston is YOUstin.

Set is correct about the meaning and origin of forte but the usage of the pronunciation FORtay supplies the dictionary and linguistics people with all the evidence they need to print:

Quote:

In forte we have a word derived from French that in its “strong point” sense has no entirely satisfactory pronunciation. Usage writers have denigrated \ˈfȯr-ˌtā\ and \ˈfȯr-tē\ because they reflect the influence of the Italian-derived forte. Their recommended pronunciation \ˈfȯrt\, however, does not exactly reflect French either: the French would write the word le fort and would pronounce it more similar to English for. So you can take your choice, knowing that someone somewhere will dislike whichever variant you choose. All are standard, however. In British English \ˈfȯ-ˌtā\ and \ˈfȯt\ predominate; \ˈfȯr-ˌtā\ and \fȯr-ˈtā\ are probably the most frequent pronunciations in American English.

Very nicely put. I try to use the words "strong point" to avoid all the problems.

What I can't figure out is Prix Fixe.
Here in New York I have heard:
Pri FIX
Pri FEEKS
PRI FEE.
Joe(I just order the LUNCH with WINE)Nation

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@Joe Nation,

wash has an R in it where I live.

go worsh up for supper.

and them folks in Arkansas got it all wrong.

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Why do Americans say Ma-tour for mature?
They don't say futour - future, captour - capture, sootour - suture.
Does anyone know where that pronunciation started and or why?

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Things that sound wrong when pronounced right.

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