Should human rights be taken away from someone if they are diagnosed with schizophrenia?

Part of the confusion is due to use of the term "human rights" instead of the correct "civil rights". The original poster here has another thread:
http://able2know.org/topic/166110-1

the conundrum , for the Human rightists , at least it should be

My favorite weapon I carried wile in the military was the S.A.W (squad automatic weapon) That baby could fire 1.000 rounds a minute. Too bad we had to carry all the amunition though

By the way CI, have you ever met anyone with an obvious and severely delusional mind? Or anyone with severe paranoia? (I make the differentiation because, while paranoia is delusional, delusions can of course, take other forms)

Hello vikorr pleasure metting you Although may not be the traditional face to face metting, It is still a form of communication ( the one that works best for me too) I do belive my paranoia is severe, But first let me take the time to explain how my paronia is created. Some cultures called this the split mind disease. I think its an excelent description, Anything that happens to grab my attetion, I start to think about and start having discutions as if several people are in a room talking about it. So evreything gets over anylized, and the room wont stop the discussion until they come with a aggreable answer. Unfortanly somethings get so over discused that the answers come out in a way that are 'Paranoid' or even delusional at times. One the biggest examples of this that sticks out in my mind that happens to me is, Being in a car, my mind trys not play out evrey possible scenerio as we are driving along. Now if you take time to play out one scenario, just one. Go ahead ...................... Did one or more of the scenarios ended up baddly. Well can you imagine me lookig down trying not to see the road, But evreytime I look up, Isee the road and here we go theres evrey imaginable scenerio being played out Its a night mare for me. Well now that yall met a real life schizo, what are your questions? It would be my Honor to anwser anything I can to the best of my ability.

Hi Peter, good to meet you too.

I've met a number of Schizophrenics, and some range from the mild to the extreme (extreme cases aren't common that I know of). I even shared a house with one guy who had a mild case - nice guy, given to occasionally losing his cool badly, but yet still trying to keep it under control...eventually saw a doctor and found he had mild schizophrenia. He was fine after he took some medication.

The more severe cases that I came across, paranoia and delusion were intertwined, and the person wasn't capable of holding a fully rational conversation. So needless to say, as you can hold a rational conversation, you are far from the worst (not that that is meant to be too much comfort).

I've always been curious with something about paranoid schizophrenics - have you ever tried some mind techniques : meditation, hypnosis, NLP or the likes?

Technically, I'm of the belief that you can train your mind (thoughts) to behave in certain ways, though I think that a big shift is a difficult thing to accomplish. I just don't know how that would work with schizophrenics (I'm of the opinion that it should still be possible, but don't really know enough about that yet)

Hi yes although its alot more difficult to do now a days. I have dabled in meditation and self hypnosis. I used to used to bring down my body vitals slow enough to a degree that I could sleep. Specialy when I had an important day at work My thought process still remained the same untill the point I reached uncontioness.

I spent a good chunk of my life working with mentally ill people, and many would not survive without losing rights.

Laws are already in place that take rights from a good segment of mentally ill people.

I aggre have you seen the ones under sedative medication. I compare it to a mild version of the old 'Diebetic coma treatment'. Except it only affects the mind.

Good to know. Next question then - do you know the difference between hypnosis and meditation?

Hypnosis purpose is to achieve a goal, while meditations purpose is to achieve 'nothingness'. Yet both access the same end tool - the subconscious mind. I'm not saying go out and get hypnotised (it may not work, but that's another discussion)...I'm saying meditation is good for some things, and other methods are good for other things.

If you are familiar with a little of how the brain and mind works - in our brain we form 'connections' throughout our lives that automate how our lives work at a subconscious level, and those automations spill over into our 'conscious' life. Thought 'patterns' are automated responses (though they may take a slightly different shape each time, the 'structure/process/methodology' of the thought patterns remains mostly the same).

While I guess, without medication, you probably won't fix the underlying problem (I wouldn't say that's guaranteed), it may be possible to change the obsessive / automated thought processes...but it would be a hell of a lot of work.

Of course, I'm not a psychologist, so what I've said may be worth Jack, but I do believe it possible to change the way we think - I've had some degree of sucess myself, eliminating fears, changing attitudes, changing beliefs (all these are automated)... changing the way I interact...it's still all me, but the underlying reasons change, and therefore so does the end result.

I have, sweety. Some meds are a good fit for the individual's chemical imbalance, but when the meds are wrong,...the resulting mental/physical fog can be a very sad thing. There are also physical restraints - which can be quite heartrending to witness. Certainly, when someone is deemed unfit to manage their own affairs - and those rights are passed to a facility or family member - that constitutes a great loss of personal rights.

...and of course, we are discussing on the Giffords thread the special laws surrounding gun ownership...

I think the saddest thing to me is when a doctor deems someone a threat to himself or others...and 5150s someone. They are legally kidnapped by the state and held against their will. Clothes are taken - they can be medicated against their will... Not to mention the people they have to hang out with...

I think if we spend small % of what we spend on mentaly ill people that are incarserated, towards the research of finding a proper treatment, of these individuals. Alot of the billions of dollars costs of the taxpayer would eventual be aliviated. ( hey mail that one to Mr Barracks health care agenda) It feels good to speak on their behave since they no longer have a political voice

Oh please don't get me started! The deinstitutionalization of mentally ill people still enrages me. I mean, you desire for people to be as free as they can safely be - but many people really need the safety and reliability of an institution. They were basically shown the door by the reagan administration...and the result, in my opinion, has been horrific. We are still paying for these poor people - but in emergency rooms, homeless shelters and prisons. Far worse places than mental health facilities.

I mean if someone is quadruplegic its easy to see that this person is gona need assistance for the rest of their lifes. Until we find a cure the mentaly ill are no different.

I agree, darling.

Now I just hope these posts have the 'Butterfly flapping its wings and eventualy a hurricane is created from it effect'. Now wouldnt that be awsome

It would be.

Well a quick update on my treatment. I am still not better and they are changing my reaserch doctor. Other wise is pretty much the same

Hey Peter - thanks for the update. The doctor change is probably good news. Did you ever follow up with the VA appointment? Hope things improve