IRON BALL QUESTION?

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If we consider a IRON Sphere which is hollow in between and that hollowness is filled with Highly Compressed water. Now if we heat this ball and the Iron ball which is filled with water inside has enough strength that it will never blow off with the pressure inside the ball which will be created with Boiling water?

My question is what will happen to water?

1) If it starts boiling, water molecules will start to expand but since its in an Iron Ball, the tensile strength of Ball wont let it come out anyway.
2) When the iron ball starts heating the inner hollowness starts shrinking thus intensifying the pressure on the water inside. (Please consider the Thickness of Iron Ball enough that it expands and makes the inner hole smaller when it heats up).
3) We need to consider the size of the ball as palm size (roughly).

Now will the pressure created change the water into ICE.

Plz reply..

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@abhi7183,

The comment is that while proposition #2 states that the hollow interior will shrink as the temperature increases, that is simply not true.

1 Reply

Isn't water incompressible? Isn't that why hydraulic rams work? Isn't this a nonsensical question?

1 Reply

@contrex,

Dear Sir, Kindly note that water can has three forms, Solid Liquid and Water vaporus (Gaseous).. Thus defining three different states of water and thus defining three different states of pressure. If Water vapors are collected in an expandable container and the container is contracted, the end result will be we will see water in that container.

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@roger,

Dear Sir, This experiment we have done in 6th standard that If a coin with hole is heated . The inner hole will shrink as there will be 360 degree expansion of the metal. Thus its simple if there is a sphere and its heated the expansion of the metal will make the hole...

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@abhi7183,

That is absolutely untrue. Have you ever heard of an industrial technique called "shrink fit parts"? I thought not.

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@abhi7183,

Follow this link to the phase diagram for water. Since we are over the triple point, you cannot have ice. As you heat the ball, the pressure will rise dramatically in the ball. The idea that the iron will never fail is strange, but since you make that a given, the pressure will just continue to rise and the water will stay liquid. Water is not "incompressible", it's just not very compressible. My guess is that you will stay somewhere just above the equilibrium line at a given temperature.

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@roger,

Dear Sir,
Kindly go through the link and check the compressibility.
Compressibility
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Properties_of_water#Compressibility

The compressibility of water is a function of pressure and temperature. At 0 °C, in the limit of zero pressure, the compressibility is 5.1×10−10 Pa−1.[21] In the zero-pressure limit, the compressibility reaches a minimum of 4.4×10−10 Pa−1 around 45 °C before increasing again with increasing temperature. As the pressure is increased, the compressibility decreases, being 3.9×10−10 Pa−1 at 0 °C and 100 MPa. The bulk modulus of water is 2.2 GPa.[22] The low compressibility of non-gases, and of water in particular, leads to their often being assumed as incompressible. The low compressibility of water means that even in the deep oceans at 4 km depth, where pressures are 40 MPa, there is only a 1.8% decrease in volume.[22]

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@abhi7183,

True, but all that means is that pressure gets very high very quickly as you raise the temperature (well past your 40 MPa figure) and the iron fails. You have forbidden the iron to fail, therefore you get very high pressure liquid water. As shown in the phase diagram, you cannot get a solid at room temperature regardless of the pressure.

1 Reply

@engineer,

Is the failure point of the iron ball predictable, E or are there too many factors involved to confine it to a narrow range?

1 Reply

@JTT,

Dear Sir,
We have taken it as a hypothetical situation that the ball wont burst ... It has nothing to do with tensile strength of Iron and all ...

1 Reply

@abhi7183,

I understand that, Abhi. That was just an extra question of my own. Helping you with yours is out of my league.

1 Reply

@JTT,

Thanks Sir, According to my knowledge ... I assume that Even if the water doesn't change into ice, it wont even get heated up ... As the pressure building on it will change its property from water to Ice, I am not good in chemistry .. Its might change the Molecular bonding of water as well... (I am Just assuming I am not even 1% sure).. Now apart from tis assumption .. I feel that the equilibrium stage wont be even be considered as there is continious heating and the pressure building will regulate and keep on changing... Whihc will defenately change the water into Ice ... My Assumption... This question can be taken simply as what will happen if we increase the temprature of water with the increase in pressure on it....

1 Reply

@engineer,

Dear Sir, I doubt about the equillibrum, Because there will be continuous heating and thus equillibrum cant be achieved as the energy will keep flowing... We can Simply the question by asking ...
What will happen to water if its temperature is raised with rise in pressure gradually...

1 Reply

@abhi7183,

It seems to me that engineer fully answered your question. The water will obey the properties of water. The state is fully explained by the chart engineer provided. From the chart you will see that at high pressures, the water stays in its liquid state even at high temperatures.

I don't think there is anything complicated here.

1 Reply

@abhi7183,

In any real life situation, the hot sphere will lose heat to the environment. The hotter the sphere, the faster it will lose heat. This means it would reach a temperature equilibrium at the point that the heat added to the sphere equals the heat lost.

If you are going to continually raise the temperature of the surroundings, you are limited by the melting point of iron.

I don't think there is anything that complicated here.

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@maxdancona,

Sir, my assumption was that , The temperature of water wont rise as much as it should rise.... That means the High pressure on water would bring it closer to its solid state .... Isn't It ... I have earlier also simplified the question by saying "What will happen to water if we Increase the temperature as well as pressure... In this course the increase in pressure will be more in ratio of increase in temprature."

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@abhi7183,

If you look at the Steam Tables it is a nebulous region more like plasma - it is called supercritical region.

http://www.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://img.brothersoft.com/screenshots/softimage/s/steam_tables-87743-1.jpeg&imgrefurl=http://www.brothersoft.com/steam-tables-87743.html&h=488&w=656&sz=107&tbnid=mzTIE1Ba617pIM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=138&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsteam%2Btables&zoom=1&q=steam+tables&hl=en&usg=__e2rVp-xZGm3E9fbWm-Nov9IrWHE=&sa=X&ei=shsUTfe4IYvSsAP1_szOAg&ved=0CC4Q9QEwBA

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercritical_drying

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/saturated-steam-properties-d_101.html

http://arxiv.org/html/physics/9904001

1 Reply

@talk72000,

Sir, Kindly explain...

1 Reply

@abhi7183,

Please take an engineering course in Thermodynamics. You are entering the realm of engineering and no one here is a lecturer. It is not just a quiz but a whole field of knowledge.

1 Reply

IRON BALL QUESTION?

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