57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Dec, 2010 12:07 am
Bruce Sterling (cofounder of cyberpunk) shares his dark mood about the future, and recent past, of information, wikileaks, the NSA and Manning and Assange and how and why they got where they are. It's not really pro-anything but depressingly interesting because of the circles Sterling moves in socially and in pursuit of his 'art'.

http://www.webstock.org.nz/blog/2010/the-blast-shack/
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Thu 23 Dec, 2010 05:24 am
@hingehead,
It's quite well written hinge but is there anything new in it? It seems to me a long-winded way of saying what has been said on this thread. Things are out of control and the reason is that we are not set up to handle what we have created.

Quote:
Senor, senor, let's overturn these cables
Disconnect these tables
This place don't make sense to me no more
Can you tell me what we're waiting for, senor ?


Bob Dylan--Senor. (Tales of Yankee Power).
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Dec, 2010 07:56 pm
@spendius,
Long winded? Holy hell.

Interesting read and, yes, very long winded. I kept finding snippets that I wanted to copy/paste here to discuss further as points of interest, but this one made me laugh out loud.

Quote:
Even though, as major political players go, Julian Assange seems remarkably deprived of sympathetic qualities. Most saintly leaders of the oppressed masses, most wannabe martyrs, are all keen to kiss-up to the public. But not our Julian; clearly, he doesn’t lack for lust and burning resentment, but that kind of gregarious, sweaty political tactility is beneath his dignity. He’s extremely intelligent, but, as a political, social and moral actor, he’s the kind of guy who gets depressed by the happiness of the stupid.


Nice wrap-up too.

Quote:
Well… every once in a while, a situation that’s one-in-a-thousand is met by a guy who is one in a million. It may be that Assange is, somehow, up to this situation. Maybe he’s gonna grow in stature by the massive trouble he has caused. Saints, martyrs, dissidents and freaks are always wild-cards, but sometimes they’re the only ones who can clear the general air. Sometimes they become the catalyst for historical events that somehow had to happen. They don’t have to be nice guys; that’s not the point. Julian Assange did this; he direly wanted it to happen. He planned it in nitpicky, obsessive detail. Here it is; a planetary hack.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Thu 23 Dec, 2010 11:02 pm
@hingehead,
Now THAT was interesting.
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Thu 23 Dec, 2010 11:20 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
Now THAT was interesting
it was nothing new, it was more of what we see everywhere in our failing civilization, the complete inability to recognize and measure both problems and risk......it is way too much fantasy and not enough training to recognize reality.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Sat 25 Dec, 2010 02:18 pm
Quote:
By SARAH EL DEEB
Associated Press

SANAA, Yemen (AP) - A doctor would have recognized the signs of chronic malnutrition immediately in the 7-month-old girl - the swollen stomach, the constant cough. Her mother, though, had only traditional healers to turn to in her Yemeni mountain village, and they told her to stop breastfeeding.

Her milk had spoiled, they said. Their solution: stuff the baby's nose with ghee.

When that didn't work, the young mother, Sayeda al-Wadei, made the arduous 60-mile journey through the mountains to the closest hospital with facilities to treat her daughter, in the capital Sanaa.

More than 50 percent of Yemen's children are malnourished, rivaling war zones like Sudan's Darfur and parts of sub-Saharan Africa. That's just one of many worrying statistics in Yemen.

Nearly half the population lives below the poverty line of $2 a day and doesn't have access to proper sanitation. Less than a tenth of the roads are paved. Water is running out. Tens of thousands have been displaced from their homes by conflict, flooding into cities. The government is riddled with corruption, has little control outside the capital, and its main source of income - oil - could run dry in a decade.

As a result, al-Qaida is far down on a long list of worries for most Yemenis, even as the United States presses the government to step up its fight against the terror network's affiliate here.

[read on at]

http://www.wbtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=13725750

0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 01:22 am
@hingehead,
The plot thickens - over at Wired magazine they have Wiki's logs that Salon website claims are a plant by some federal agency or other.

0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 05:05 am
@hawkeye10,
Quote:
the complete inability to recognize and measure both problems and risk.


But that is not an uncaused cause hawk. Andy Warhol characterised Valerie Solanis emptying an automatic into his chest as an accident.

We stop children playing with petrol and matches don't we? Is science a dangerous thing for us to play with?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 05:34 am
@spendius,
Quote:
Is science a dangerous thing for us to play with?
Hell yes.....

"uncaused cause?"...not sure what you are getting at....we indulge in our fantasies because we dont believe that we are strong enough to deal with reality....we dont believe in ourselves anymore, or in science, or in technology, or in progress....when we lost God we lost a lot more than we understood that we were loosing, we lost ourselves..is that what you mean?
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 06:08 am
@hawkeye10,
Yes--- something along those lines.

When people like farmerman, cicerone, Setanta, rosbourne and wande etc are holding forth on science, and many are persauded by them, there is something seriously amiss. They know no science. It's a plaything to them.

At least one can have a fire extinguisher ready if a kid is playing with petrol and matches.

How can these gentlemen be acceptable when for 7 years they have steadfastly refused to answer any questions about the consequences of the policies they recommend or concerning how they can be put into effect?

How does one explain to people with their levels of hubris that they can barely read and write and that the hubris is preventing them from all possibility of improvement. 7 years on a site called Able to Know and they have learned nothing. Even their insults are running on the spot.

hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 07:19 am
@spendius,
Quote:
They know no science. It's a plaything to them.

I have not been following along so I dont know about all that. I do know that as a Zen thus a mystic that I have my own qualms about science, but I am deeply disturbed that those who claim to believe in science use some bastard process that they are calling science to arrive at the conclusion that they want to hear.....the truth is not wanted. I have the same deep disturbance when I see those who claim to believe in free market capitalism destroying what free market capitalism that we had and putting in its place an economy designed by the corporate class which is designed to serve only the corporate class but is still called a "free market economy". I have the same deep level of disturbance when I see our political leaders saying that they believe in XYZ but when every time I look at what they do and thus what they actually believe it most certainly is not XYZ...


It all boils down to the same thing, and I see it everywhere.....that is a civilization that is deep into the death spiral that will not be saved. We should have had a clue what was up when we lost God.
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 01:10 pm
@hawkeye10,
hawk, What part of science use "some bastard process?" This, I gotta hear.

When you talk about "free market capitalism," it's not science, and human nature on greed can destroy the good things about "free market capitalism." Don't blame capitalism for the crimes of humans; it's the best economic system that can improve living standards.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 01:36 pm
Quote:
How WikiLeaks Just Set Back Democracy in Zimbabwe
(By Christopher R. Albon, The Atlantic, December 28, 2010)

Last year, early on Christmas Eve morning, representatives from the U.S., United Kingdom, Netherlands, and the European Union arrived for a meeting with Zimbabwean opposition leader Morgan Tsvangirai. Appointed prime minister earlier that year as part of a power-sharing agreement after the fraud- and violence-ridden 2008 presidential election, Tsvangirai and his political party, Movement for Democratic Change (MDC), are considered Zimbabwe's greatest hopes for unseating the country's long-time de facto dictator Robert Mugabe and bringing democratic reforms to the country.

The topic of the meeting was the sanctions imposed on Zimbabwe by a collection of western countries, including the U.S. and E.U. Tsvangirai told the western officials that, while there had been some progress in the last year, Mugabe and his supporters were dragging their feet on delivering political reforms. To overcome this, he said that the sanctions on Zimbabwe "must be kept in place" to induce Mugabe into giving up some political power. The prime minister openly admitted the incongruity between his private support for the sanctions and his public statements in opposition. If his political adversaries knew Tsvangirai secretly supported the sanctions, deeply unpopular with Zimbabweans, they would have a powerful weapon to attack and discredit the democratic reformer.

Later that day, the U.S. embassy in Zimbabwe dutifully reported the details of the meeting to Washington in a confidential U.S. State Department diplomatic cable. And slightly less than one year later, WikiLeaks released it to the world.

The reaction in Zimbabwe was swift. Zimbabwe's Mugabe-appointed attorney general announced he was investigating the Prime Minister on treason charges based exclusively on the contents of the leaked cable. While it's unlikely Tsvangirai could be convicted on the contents of the cable alone, the political damage has already been done. The cable provides Mugabe the opportunity to portray Tsvangirai as an agent of foreign governments working against the people of Zimbabwe. Furthermore, it could provide Mugabe with the pretense to abandon the coalition government that allowed Tsvangirai to become prime minister in 2009.

It's difficult to see this as anything but a major setback for democracy in Zimbabwe. Even if Tsvangirai is not charged with treason, the opponents to democratic reforms have won a significant victory. First, popular support for Tsvangirai and the MDC will suffer due to Mugabe's inevitable smear campaign, including the attorney general's "investigation." Second, the Prime Minister might be forced to take positions in opposition to the international community to avoid accusation of being a foreign collaborator. Third, Zimbabwe's fragile coalition government could collapse completely. Whatever happens, democratic reforms in Zimbabwe are far less likely now than before the leak.

To their supporters, WikiLeaks and its founder Julian Assange are heroes of the democratic cause. Assange himself has claimed that his organization promotes democracy by strengthening the media. But in Zimbabwe, Assange's pursuit of this noble goal has provided a tyrant with the ammunition to wound, and perhaps kill, any chance for multiparty democracy. Earlier this month, Assange claimed that "not a single person, as far as anyone is aware, has been harmed" by Wikileaks' practices. This is no longer true, if it ever was.

Any damage to democratic reforms from WikiLeaks likely comes not from malice but naivety. Assange is probably not best described, as Vice President Joe Biden recently put it, a "high-tech terrorist." Rather, he, his organization, and their activist supporters believe that they can promote democracy by making an enemy of secrecy itself. What we're seeing in Zimbabwe, however, is that those methods won't necessarily be without significant collateral damage.
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 01:43 pm
@cicerone imposter,
You blame Christianity for the crimes of humans all the time.

Quote:
What part of science use "some bastard process?" This, I gotta hear.


Your part. Readings off instruments taking priority over social consequences.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 02:14 pm
@spendius,
One need only look at history and current events to know that christianity has been in the middle of most human suffering.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 02:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
That's a big leap there, CI. I agree that christianity has been intricately involved in much human suffering, as a direct cause or an influence - don't think of getting me going on my old church - but so has atheism (think Stalin et al), and probably all other varieties of religious belief. Hey, maybe even agnostics can take some of the rap.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 02:26 pm
@ossobuco,
Since Stalin's religion was communism, it only attracted people who believed more in an economic system than they did religion.

No economic system can change the minds of people who believes in any of the religions. Even in Russia, Russians practiced their religion in secret - as they also did in China.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 03:20 pm
@cicerone imposter,
I was raised on near adoration of Cardinal Mindszenty. My mother sent much of what money we had to missionaries in Formosa. As I said, don't get me going.

However, I think your putting christianity in the middle of most human suffering is only a rhetorical leap.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 03:22 pm
@ossobuco,
Probably so; it's a natural defensive mechanism built into my psyche from all the exchanges we've had on religion. I always welcome challenges to my posts.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Jan, 2011 03:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
(smiles)
0 Replies
 
 

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