WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

Take up the White Man's burden--
In patience to abide,
To veil the threat of terror
And check the show of pride;
By open speech and simple,
An hundred times made plain
To seek another's profit,
And work another's gain.

Take up the White Man's burden--
The savage wars of peace--
Fill full the mouth of Famine
And bid the sickness cease;
And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought.

You are not DebraLaw in disguise are you?

I seriously doubt if they would refuse to ignore a piece of information they came across, even about another diplomat.

Quote:

First of all the notion of legality as respects international spying is ridiculous. It is illegal everywhere but that doesn't stop any nation from engaging in it, and no nation outlaws it with the expectation that it will prevent anyone from spying on them. The purpose of making it illegal is so that when you catch someone doing it you can stop them.

Do you even read what you write? The bolding is mine to highlight two diametrically opposed thoughts in one paragraph.

Let's see if I can make it clearer for you.

We have a law that makes it a crime to murder someone. The law is intended to disuade people from murdering each other and it makes a clear statement about our values. If the state murders citizens it will be seen not only as breaking the law, but hypocritically violating our values.

We have a law that makes it a crime to spy on our government. The law may disuade first line clerks and CIA agents from revealing state secrets to foreign agents, but it is not going to nor is it intended to disuade foreign agents from doing their job. In part it may make a clear statement of values about Americans betraying America, but says nothing about the values of the foreign agents doing their job. It exists so that when we inevitably catch foreign agents spying on us we can have a law we can use to stop from doing their job. When our state instructs its agents to spy on foreign governments and their representatives it is not breaking its own law, it is not being hypocritical and its not violating our values. When it is revealed that our government has ordered spying it can be politically harmful, depending on the target, and put individual agents at risk, but it's hardly a legal or moral black eye, so the faux outrage over learning the US government engages in international espionage is ridiculous.

Quote:

Presumably you can cite the US law that makes the actions reported by WikiLeaks illegal,

What? Why would I. I'm pro-wikileaks. Your freaking government can't even find one - so it goes ad hominem on a figurehead.


Since you have repeatedly asserted that Clinton's ordering American agents to spy on UN officials violates US law, I though you might at least have a clue as to the law you claim is being broken. Obviously you are pro-WikiLeaks but are you such a supporter that you would deliberately lie in spreading propoganda in its favor? I didn't assume as much and so figured you could tell me what law you believe Hillary Clinton has broken.

Quote:

because as you might expect, I don't place a lot of stock in international law.

clap clap clap. Well done you. Unless of course you can use it to justify a US action, or seek retribution against someone who has done the US harm. Let's rip up the Geneva convention for starters. You're a hypocrite with his hands on his ears yelling 'lah lah lah lah I'm not listening to you lah lah lah lah'

And you're complaining about the US government's use of ad hominem attacks?

Since I've lost faith in your ability to back up your statements I won't ask you to provide evidence that I've ever relied on international law to justify a US action. How ripping up the Geneva convention is an example of standing on international law when it suits me is beyond me, but maybe I just can't hear you with my hands on my ears.

Thomas wrote:

You can't break US law when you're a non-US citizen living and working outside of the US.

Sure you can.

joefromchicago wrote:

Thomas wrote:

You can't break US law when you're a non-US citizen living and working outside of the US.

Sure you can.

I'm from Missouri. Show me.

Presumably you can cite the US law that makes the actions reported by WikiLeaks illegal,

I. What rights do I have?

Whether or not you're a citizen, you have these constitutional rights:

The Right to Remain Silent. The Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution gives every person the right not to answer questions asked by a police officer or government agent.

The Right to be Free from "Unreasonable Searches and Seizures". The Fourth Amendment is supposed to protect your privacy. Without a warrant, police or government agents may not search your home or office without your consent, and you have the right to refuse to let them in. They can enter and search without a warrant in an emergency. New laws have expanded the government's authority to conduct surveillance. It is possible that your e-mail, cell and other telephone calls, and conversations in your home, office, car or meeting place are being monitored without your knowledge.

The Right to Advocate for Change. The First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution protects the rights of groups and individuals who advocate changes in laws, government practices, and even the form of government. However, the INS can target non-citizens for deportation because of their First Amendment activities, as long as it could deport them for other reasons.

Wikileaks founder Julian Assange making new bail bid
14 December 2010 Last updated at 13:35 GMT

The founder of whistle-blowing website Wikileaks is appearing in court in London in a fresh attempt to secure bail.

Julian Assange, 39, denies sexually assaulting two women in Sweden and is fighting extradition.

Mr Assange was refused bail last week despite the offer of sureties from figures including film director Ken Loach and journalist John Pilger.

A number of protesters gathered outside the court ahead of the hearing.

They have been joined outside City of Westminster Magistrates' Court by a large crowd of reporters and a number of Mr Assange's high-profile supporters.

Gay rights campaigner Peter Tatchell told reporters: "The denial of bail looks like victimisation.

"I think it's absolutely wrong that he is being treated in this way." ...<cont>

If such is not a crime in Bermuda (though I do think, it is one) he hasn't committed a crime there.

Thomas is correct: although many US-citizen think so, the US-law isn't law in any country outside the U.S.A. jurisdiction.

Julian Assange freed on bail:

• Assange freed on bail to cheers from supporters
• Assange criticises Visa, MasterCard and Paypal from cell
• Police worked case against Madeleine McCann's parents
• Full coverage of the WikiLeaks cables

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Julian Assange, pictured through the heavily tinted windows of a police vehicle Wikileaks founder Julian Assange, pictured through the heavily tinted windows of a police vehicle as he arrives at Westminster magistrates court in London, on 14 December 2010. Photograph: Carl Court/AFP/Getty Images

3.34pm: Assange's bail conditions include surrendering his passport, a curfew, and an electronic tag.

3.31pm: Assange's next court appearance will be January 11 2011. (Sorry about the technical problems in the last few minutes).

3.25pm: Assange has been granted bail, to cheers from inside and outside the court.

...<cont>