57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 04:17 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
But that's usually not what diplomats do - you certainly remember that from the training for Foreign Service Officers.


You got to be kidding me.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 04:26 pm
Finn wrote:
Quote:
IFirst of all, many an innocent man or woman have been prosecuted and secondly one's personal assessment of whether or not he has broken a law is entirely irrelevant to DOJ actions.


That's definitely a true statement. The United States always has put itself
above the law, not only domestically but also internationally.
djjd62
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 04:29 pm
i've never thought that diplomatic immunity should exist
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 04:38 pm
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

Quote:
More outcry from us? Why isn't there more outcry from those targeted?

Because it was breaking your law in your country. Rolling Eyes


Is it? If so, then I think she should be charged and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. I have no idea if collecting personal data on diplomats is against the law or not. One would think that the folks whose data are being collected would have something to say about it if it's illegal. I was originally outraged by it, but then sorta shrugged it off as no salt off my back if the folks being targeted don't care. I fully support any charge brought against HC for any illegal act carried out under her name and/or direction.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 04:58 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Considering the way many of them acted with the corrupt Oil for Food program, I don't think keeping an eye on them is such a bad thing.


And that's just what WLs is doing, keeping an eye on the real scoundrels.

Have you failed to notice, Finn, that for each and every issue that is raised, the USA is found to be in the middle, desperately trying to scrub the blood off its hands or diverting attention away from its involvement in the theft of other countries wealth.

Quote:
It has also been alleged that the American government was aware of the scandal and chose to not prevent the smuggling because their allies Turkey and Jordan benefited from the majority of the smuggled oil. US Senator Carl Levin (D-Michigan) is quoted in an interview for the New York Times as saying, "There is no question that the bulk of the illicit oil revenues came from the open sale of Iraqi oil to Jordan and to Turkey, and that that was a way of going around the Oil-for-Food Programme [and that] we were fully aware of the bypass and looked the other way."[3]

Galloway testimony

"We have your name on Iraqi documents, some prepared before the fall of Saddam, some after, that identify you as one of the allocation holders," Senator Coleman accused MP Galloway in May 2005. "I am not now nor have I ever been an oil trader" retorted Galloway, stating that the charges were false and part of a diversionary "mother of all smoke screens" by pro-Iraq-War U.S. politicians to deflect attention from the "theft of billions of dollars of Iraq's wealth... on your watch" that had occurred not during the Oil-for-Food program but under the post-invasion Coalition Provisional Authority by "Halliburton and other American corporations... with the connivance of your own government." Galloway claimed that the subcommittee's dossier was full of distortions and rudimentary mistakes, citing, for example, the charge that he had met with Saddam Hussein "many times" when the number was two.[4] This unusual appearance of a British MP before a US Senate committee drew much media attention in both America and Britain.[5]
The Majority Staff of the subcommittee prepared a subsequent report pertaining to Galloway, which was released in October, 2005. It elaborated on allegations and evidence of the committee and included disputed [6] testimony from former Iraqi foreign minister Tariq Aziz. It also alleges that another officer of Mariam Appeal, Galloway's then-wife, received $150,000 in oil kickbacks, which she denies.[7][8] Senator Coleman conveyed these reports to the U.S. Department of Justice, the Manhattan DA, the Washington DC and New York federal prosecutors, the UK Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards, and the Charity Commission.[9][10] None saw fit to pursue charges.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil-for-Food_Program_Hearings




0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 05:09 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

Finn wrote:
Quote:
IFirst of all, many an innocent man or woman have been prosecuted and secondly one's personal assessment of whether or not he has broken a law is entirely irrelevant to DOJ actions.


That's definitely a true statement. The United States always has put itself
above the law, not only domestically but also internationally.



I'm glad you recognized the truth in the statement but I'm afraid its for the wrong reason because you seem to have failed to recognize the application.

You must think pretty highly of yourself if you believe that the DOJ not giving a fig for whether you believe Assange is guilty of a crime is evidence that the US puts itself above domestic and international law.

You are not DebraLaw in disguise are you?
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 05:15 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn's answer to addressing the facts is to get out his three little cups and the pea.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  3  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 05:22 pm
@mysteryman,
mysteryman wrote:
So someone living in Bermuda can commit fraud against a US bank, and as long as they stay out of the country and arent a US citizen, then they havent committed a crime?

Not under US law they haven't. Certainly US courts and US law enforcement would have no jurisdiction to do anything about it.

I'm sure that fraud is illegal in Bermuda, that US banks can report it to Bermuda law enforcement, and that Bermuda courts will convict the fraudster if the case goes to trial. But that wasn't what you were talking about earlier.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 05:24 pm
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

I'm suggesting both your law and international law say it's illegal.




First of all the notion of legality as respects international spying is ridiculous. It is illegal everywhere but that doesn't stop any nation from engaging in it, and no nation outlaws it with the expectation that it will prevent anyone from spying on them. The purpose of making it illegal is so that when you catch someone doing it you can stop them.

Presumably you can cite the US law that makes the actions reported by WikiLeaks illegal, because as you might expect, I don't place a lot of stock in international law.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 05:29 pm
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

Quote:
More outcry from us? Why isn't there more outcry from those targeted?

Because it was breaking your law in your country. Rolling Eyes

Quote:
The leak of the directive is likely to spark questions about the legality of the operation and about whether state department diplomats are expected to spy. The level of technical and personal detail demanded about the UN top team's communication systems could be seen as laying the groundwork for surveillance or hacking operations. It requested "current technical specifications, physical layout and planned upgrades to telecommunications infrastructure and information systems, networks and technologies used by top officials and their support staff", as well as details on private networks used for official communication, "to include upgrades, security measures, passwords, personal encryption keys and virtual private network versions used".Guardian source


Ok, spark away, but I don't see why folks here should be all up in arms if the folks being targeted aren't.
spendius
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 05:58 pm
Holy smoke!!! The lengths some people will go to deny that they don't know what's going on and that things are out of control.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 06:32 pm
@spendius,
Were you referring to me, Spendy? I assure you that I'm fully aware that "things" are out of control.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 06:33 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
First of all the notion of legality as respects international spying is ridiculous. It is illegal everywhere but that doesn't stop any nation from engaging in it, and no nation outlaws it with the expectation that it will prevent anyone from spying on them. The purpose of making it illegal is so that when you catch someone doing it you can stop them.


Do you even read what you write? The bolding is mine to highlight two diametrically opposed thoughts in one paragraph.

Quote:
Presumably you can cite the US law that makes the actions reported by WikiLeaks illegal,

What? Why would I. I'm pro-wikileaks. Your freaking government can't even find one - so it goes ad hominem on a figurehead.

Quote:
because as you might expect, I don't place a lot of stock in international law.

clap clap clap. Well done you. Unless of course you can use it to justify a US action, or seek retribution against someone who has done the US harm. Let's rip up the Geneva convention for starters. You're a hypocrite with his hands on his ears yelling 'lah lah lah lah I'm not listening to you lah lah lah lah'
hingehead
 
  2  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 06:45 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
Ok, spark away, but I don't see why folks here should be all up in arms if the folks being targeted aren't.


No sparking. I just am left aghast at people targetting Assange when there's no clear legal reason to do so, and then ignoring your own country's breach of law.
If your government did this:
Quote:
"The intelligence information the diplomats were ordered to gather included biometric information, passwords, and personal encryption keys used in private and commercial networks for official communications."

To a private citizen what would happen?

I guess you guys are comfortable with your government acting like that - but it would make my skin crawl if I had proof mine was doing the same thing.

The case against Daniel Ellsberg was dismissed in part because of the US government's illegal pursuing of the case, like burglarising Ellsberg's psychiatrists office to try and steal his Ellsberg's file. George Santayana was right.
0 Replies
 
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 07:01 pm
@Thomas,
Thomas wrote:
You can't break US law when you're a non-US citizen living and working outside of the US.

Sure you can.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 07:03 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:

Thomas wrote:
You can't break US law when you're a non-US citizen living and working outside of the US.

Sure you can.


Can you be tried for it, if you're not an American citizen?

Cycloptichorn
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 07:07 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Sure, why not? Not much sense in charging someone with a crime if you couldn't try them for it.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 07:08 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
You're a hypocrite with his hands on his ears yelling 'lah lah lah lah I'm not listening to you lah lah lah lah'


Says you and millions and millions of others for whom reality has a basis in, you guessed it, reality.

0 Replies
 
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 07:09 pm
@joefromchicago,
Depends on the charge, surely? Many espionage cases have been tried in absentia.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 13 Dec, 2010 07:13 pm
@High Seas,
Depends on a lot of things.
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 05/03/2024 at 05:11:38