57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 05:22 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
You don't know me at all, JTT.


That's not exactly true, Osso but regardless, I noted my mistake. I should have withdrawn my question too and for failing to do that I apologise.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 05:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Why you, or anyone else, feels the need to justify themselves to JTT is beyond me.


I see you got swept up in Finn dFraud's propaganda, Osso. You're normally way more discerning.
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 05:47 pm
I don't know if this has been discussed earlier on this thread, but how did Assange get a hold of all of this information?
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 05:56 pm
@InfraBlue,
What does that matter now?

There's a rumour here that copycats are springing up like mushrooms do where horses have been shitting and the whole thing is about to start leaking like a bunch of gossips talking about adultery.

Never let an employee become disgruntled is my advice.



spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 06:01 pm
@spendius,
The best thing to do is not tell anybody your name.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 06:02 pm
@InfraBlue,
InfraBlue wrote:

I don't know if this has been discussed earlier on this thread, but how did Assange get a hold of all of this information?


A dude in the military leaked most of it to him, along with 'unknown sources.' I know that a BofA management guy left his laptop in a hotel room and Wikileaks copied almost 5 gigs off his hard drive, which is where they are getting their BofA data.

Cycloptichorn
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 06:19 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
What was it that distracted him in the hotel room that caused such an oversight Cyclo? Normal absent-mindedness must have been screened out by experts surely? What are experts for?
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 06:23 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

What was it that distracted him in the hotel room that caused such an oversight Cyclo? Normal absent-mindedness must have been screened out by experts surely? What are experts for?


He checked out and left the laptop there, per reports I've read.

What 'experts' are you referring to, here? The concept that executives are screened for competence in any way beggars belief.

Has the weather let up enough for you to be able to hit the pub easily? I read a lot of snow was going down.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 08:05 pm
Quote:
Wikileaks: Kevin Rudd blames US for release of diplomatic cables
Kevin Rudd, the former Australian prime minister, has blamed America for the release of thousands of classified diplomatic cables by Wikileaks and called into question US security measures surrounding confidential information.


The Full Story isn't quite the way that initial blurb states it. But his take is interesting considering he's one of the people already 'outed' by wikileaks.
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 08:07 pm
@hingehead,
I said that already 5 pages ago when DER SPIEGEL had an interview with the
Iranian aid to the president. The Iranian guy said in the interview that the
US is responsible for the release of the cables...I am looking for the post now.

Here it is
http://able2know.org/topic/164540-32#post-4437847
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 08:12 pm
@hingehead,
Hi hinge
I posted that last night, when you were sleeping I guess, plus the Mark Arbib related Wikileaks.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/in-depth/wikileaks/us-espionage-trial-endgame-for-julian-assange/story-fn775xjq-1225967923486

It'll be interesting to see, the fallout from all this.
Plus any new Oz-related leaks which might be in the pipeline.

JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 08:52 pm
What has come out is only the tip of a very very big and a very very evil "iceberg". What really scares the US and its first world mercenary proxies is the idea that somewhere, sometime, probably in the not too distant future, some real documents will hit the internet.

Something like this:

Quote:
5. The United States government must make full disclosure of the truth from all its records and the memories of its former and present personnel of all crimes and wrongful acts it has committed, and caused against the people of Korea since September 8, 1945.

http://www.iacenter.org/Koreafiles/ktc_indictment.htm



0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 09:25 pm
@InfraBlue,
It's an interesting thread, Blue, readable.
0 Replies
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 10:40 pm
I've been very torn over how the WL controversy continues to unfold. The conflict is that I believe much of this information should be available to the public. Transparency is a good thing, but the more I look at this, the more I feel like this should not be mistaken for true transparency.

How to feel about Assange's "warning shot" and "poison pill?" Is information for the people or is it to be used as leverage?

It seems clear after this week, that he hordes the most sensitive information. This is exactly what I was affraid of happening. I said before, and I mean it: This isn't transparency.

Assange is exactly what he claims to loathe. He obviously recognizes the power of withheld information. Why share thee full cables with 5 news outlets, but not post them in full? Why make poison pill threats? Why not just post it up on the site?

Asange himself talks about the human collateral damage in Kenya. A bogus election leaked, and a revolt sounds great until 1,300 are dead and over 200,000 are displaced. This isn't theoretical, and Assange himself takes credit for it--cooly citing the price in blood as "a statistic." Isn't this humans as numbers mentality the exact evil he's claims to fight?

Same goes for the Afghans who gave info to the US. Asange claims that he would love leaked info on AQ or the Taliban. He also claims to be a champion of the rights of the whistle-blowers. How can one resolve these contradictions? The informants who gave info on the Taliban to the US were whistle-blowers! Why does he not advocate for them? This point apparently caused internal conflict in the organization.

Manning is "unfortunate collateral" too according to another interview with the man. This is our moral police? Our champion of transpancy? He's the one supposed to guide us away from inhumanity? Who elected this man the arbiter of truth and transparency?

Our generation will bear moral scars from these wars, but our real crime is compacency. WL is the easy way, not the right way. It's our way to assauge the guilt through blame. In the end, the villians are aways the government, the corporations, the banks; it's always them, but never us. It's never our total lack of civic participation, oversight, or consumer advocacy.

So here's my compass; here is how I will decide if the right information the wrong way is worth it: If WL actually causes public participation. Otherwise, it's just people pissed off sitting at their computer while others elswhere in the world are "unfortunate collateral." I'd like to see real transparancy in the form of giving more power to the Freedom of Information Act. I'd like to see Net Neutrality protected. In fact, Assange may have created the exact excuse for the GOP to push this further. Another reason I'm upset. But if people can only be bothered to surf the web, and not know their elected reps names (let alone write them a personal letter or call their phone), then there is a word for it.

Put best by my friend in response to people changing their profile pics to cartoon characters to raise awareness of child abuse.
Quote:
"Slacktivism - The act of participating in obviously pointless activities as an expedient alternative to actually expending effort to fix a problem. (e.g. - Changing your profile pic to a cartoon. e.g. - pink ribbons for breast cancer)"

And...

e.g. - Mistaking blame for accountability because it's easier.

A
R
T
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 10:54 pm
@failures art,
For the record: I don't think that the site is illegal in any way. I don't think that the site is the issue at all. I'm just nauseated by the hero worship given to Assange. He waves the banner of transparency, for which I believe he has no claim to.

A
R
T
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 11:36 pm
@failures art,
Lots of accusations, Art and like Finn, nothing to lend credence to what you say.

Quote:
Same goes for the Afghans who gave info to the US. Asange claims that he would love leaked info on AQ or the Taliban. He also claims to be a champion of the rights of the whistle-blowers. How can one resolve these contradictions? The informants who gave info on the Taliban to the US were whistle-blowers! Why does he not advocate for them?


In your opinion, how might these Afghans compare to Bradley Manning? Or let's take a better example. How would these Afghans compare, again, in your opinion, to a US citizen who gave operational information to an enemy and that caused the deaths of one or a hundred or a thousand troops?

Quote:
Our generation will bear moral scars from these wars,


I'm not at all sure that you could say there hasn't been a generation of Americans who shouldn't have had these "moral scars" to bear. It's hardly been much of a cross to bear, hell, it doesn't give a whole lot of Americans even a moments pause.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 11:41 pm
@failures art,
Listening.

I'm not moved by your moral wars, wait, get the horses in line.

I'm not against you either.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2010 02:42 am
@failures art,
Quote:
Assange is exactly what he claims to loathe. He obviously recognizes the power of withheld information. Why share thee full cables with 5 news outlets, but not post them in full? Why make poison pill threats? Why not just post it up on the site?
Thats a compelling question, arty....do you think he is after money ? I dont see much sense to him doing it the way he is....
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2010 02:45 am
We need someone to do a tally of the people killed by these leaks.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Thu 9 Dec, 2010 02:49 am
@Ionus,
Quote:
We need someone to do a tally of the people killed by these leaks
The biggest kill might be the Internet as we know it.....The Chinese are already pushing to kill it, to make sure that every information packet is traceable to a person so that revenge can be exacted. Maybe western governments will now decide that the Chinese have been right all along.
 

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