57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
Rockhead
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 01:52 pm
diversion from topic...

Isn't it wonderful to live in a country where you have to hide health problems in order to gain employment...?

God Bless America.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 01:53 pm
@JPB,
Quote:

Osso wrote: This would mean killing fewer terrorists in the short run,


So you think that it is okay for the US government to engage in these war crimes, eh, Osso?
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 01:55 pm
@JTT,
JTT wrote:

Quote:

Osso wrote: This would mean killing fewer terrorists in the short run,


So you think that it is okay for the US government to engage in these war crimes, eh, Osso?

err... I think you're a tad confused. That quote is from the link osso posted that I quoted, and it means just the opposite.
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 01:55 pm
@Rockhead,
Quote:
Isn't it wonderful to live in a country where you have to hide health problems in order to gain employment
isn't it nice to live in a country where the government is systematically removing our ability to hide our genetic code and our medical condition from either our employer or the state??
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 04:13 pm
@hawkeye10,
I don't want to be seen defending such things hawk but the government might think it needs to do them to get the growth figures up to the electorate's satisfaction. "It's the economy-stupid". A very cynical thing to say indeed. Orwell put it more poetically--"a stick rattling in a bucket". Which is class.

The electorate have trained up their politicians. And elections are survival tests. One of these days a president will tell you to shove the job you know where and buy a cottage in the Cotswolds and spend the rest of his life reading, going to the pub and watching Sky Sports. It wouldn't take me long to get there when I look at what a president is up against. I never forget that lanky, loose frame has to lie in bed every night staring at the ceiling.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 04:14 pm
@hawkeye10,
Isn't it wonderful to live in a country that purports to respect democratic principles but has seriously breached those principles in countries worldwide and in so doing has been responsible for the deaths of millions of innocent human beings.

Isn't it nice to live in a country where the top officials are all war criminals?

Isn't it nice to live in a country where people make a great pretense to being open and candid?
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 04:18 pm
@BillW,
I know, that is how I am feeling, though I am more on one side than the other. The article helped clarify my confusion points.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 04:20 pm
@JPB,
Quote:
err... I think you're a tad confused. That quote is from the link osso posted that I quoted, and it means just the opposite.


I did get it confused as to who said what, JPB. Thanks for setting me straight.

0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 04:21 pm
@JPB,
I agree with that quite strongly. The long run might be a long long time, though.
0 Replies
 
BillW
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 04:23 pm
@ossobuco,
Then I read something that makes me go the other way and so forth. Back and forth. Everytime I see this guy on TV, I get creepy feelings - then, I see him putting forth of information as transparency and good for the system. But, I do want some form of censure, but then again I don't see this to be the guy that censures. After reading his full bio, I know this isn't the guy I want protecting the truth - it is a tough call.
0 Replies
 
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 04:23 pm
@Rockhead,
No...

and actually it's not really a diversion. I'll call it a twist.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 04:25 pm
@JTT,
It's the same here but, but like everything we have compared to you, it's on a smaller scale. But things are improving I think. When the Allies bombed German cities they were trying to kill civilians. The A bombs the same. At least we try not to now. That's an improvement. In the right direction.

I know it isn't much consolation in many ways but if you keep battering at them they'll listen to some extent. It's not very nice being called a war criminal and a mass murderer. You're bound to win. Jesus said so. But how do you teach meekness and humility to NFL fanatics?
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 04:25 pm
experts are claiming that the encryption on the doomsday file is solid..not that this should come as a surprise to anyone...
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 04:38 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:
But how do you teach meekness and humility to NFL fanatics?


Very Happy

fahgetaboutit!
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 04:40 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
At least we try not to now. That's an improvement. In the right direction.


I wish that was true, Spendi, but it ain't. The UK, I gather that the 'same here' you mean, spread enormous amounts of depleted uranium all over Iraq, not sure about Afghanistan.

That was directly targeting civilians with WMDs. The result has been horrendous.

Quote:
but like everything we have compared to you, it's on a smaller scale.


I agree. To note that, when Bush and Blair are sent to the Hague, Tony should be dressed in short pants.

0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 04:48 pm
@BillW,
BillW wrote:

Do you really think they will go viral?


Why not?

Assange has repeatedly stated that his efforts are not to encourage governmental transparency but to disrupt and shut down government operations.

I don't doubt that he believes his efforts are targeted only at operations which work against the best interests of the governed, but then he has acknowledged that, for him, "collateral damage" to innocents is unfortunate but acceptable in the advancement of his mission. This acknowledgment was made for "collateral damage" that encompassed physical injury and death, do you think he would shrink from invasion of privacy?

It is a goal of anarchists to bring the machinary of government to a grinding halt. To convince the governed that not only can they not trust their governments, they cannot rely upon them.

Can anyone be confident that Assange won't decide that the release of massive amounts of information relative to personal health records or financials, despite the possibility for "collateral damage," is a good way to achieve his goal?

Even if we accept that his mission is foundationally legitimate, why should we trust him to decide upon the appropriate targets?

He charges governments with control and mainpulation of information to serve their interests and intentions. Isn't he guilty of the same crime?

Having obainted the hundreds of thousands of sensitive documents, he didn't simply provide the whole world with total access to his entire database. He developed and is executing a plan for periodic and select releases based on timing and subject matter and employing chosen publishing sources.

What precisely his plan is, I certainly can't say, but there is a plan and there are motives and manipulation. I don't know why we should feel more secure with him having the information to dispense as he sees fit, as opposed to our governments. Those of us who are citizens of democratic nations have had far more of a say in the appointment of governmental keepers of this information than in the selection of Julian Assange as the private keeper.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 04:50 pm
@JTT,
You don't know me at all, JTT. I have spoken re my opinions on a2k but they are hard to search, at least for me, embedded as they are in threads with huge numbers of posts) and I don't keep repeating them. My foremost point of view is anti bomb, any bombs by anyone or any country. My father was a honcho (head of photo) in the 40's bomb test times, often brave, and I may be his full opposite, though I understand that he was a tireless patriot re his duty as he saw it. Well, he was tired, too. I'm not so different from him, but our ideas, if we could talk now - he'd be a hundred and four years old - would likely diverge (though his view across the years would be interesting - it might be he who would have become more like me. He died in '68); I'll add he was the first person I knew who was against the vietnam war... like, immediately.
Way before others.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 04:54 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

You don't know me at all, JTT. I have spoken re my opinions on a2k but they are hard to search, and I don't keep repeating them. My foremost point of view is anti bomb, any bombs by anyone or any country. My father was a honcho (head of photo) in the 40's bomb test times, and I may be his full opposite, though I understand that he was a tireless patriot re his duty as he saw it. Well, he was tired, too. I'm not so different from him, but our ideas, if we could talk now, would likely diverge (though his view across the years would be interesting - it might be he who would have become more like me. He died in '68); I'll add he was the first person I knew who was against the vietnam war... like, immediately.
Way before others.


Why you, or anyone else, feels the need to justify themselves to JTT is beyond me.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 05:00 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Yeh. I realize the total dumbness of that <hits own nose with nerf ball>.

Maybe I needed to 'splain, at large, as Ricky Ricardo would have said. Or give background.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 8 Dec, 2010 05:20 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dGoebbels, you are some piece of trash.

Quote:
Assange has repeatedly stated that his efforts are not to encourage governmental transparency but to disrupt and shut down government operations.


Sources please.

Quote:
I don't doubt that he believes his efforts are targeted only at operations which work against the best interests of the governed, but then he has acknowledged that, for him, "collateral damage" to innocents is unfortunate but acceptable in the advancement of his mission. This acknowledgment was made for "collateral damage" that encompassed physical injury and death, do you think he would shrink from invasion of privacy?


On the contrary, he has noted that in the four or so years that WLs has been in operation, there has been none of the "damage" that shills like you keep advancing for the US and other disreputable governments.

You must be pissed out of your gourd again to advance such fanciful lies. Wait. That would mean that you are constantly six sheets to the wind or that you are a congenital liar.

Quote:
Can anyone be confident that Assange won't decide that the release of massive amounts of information relative to personal health records or financials, despite the possibility for "collateral damage," is a good way to achieve his goal?

Even if we accept that his mission is foundationally legitimate, why should we trust him to decide upon the appropriate targets?

He charges governments with control and mainpulation of information to serve their interests and intentions. Isn't he guilty of the same crime?


You have no choice, but given his track record, if you asked any sane person who they would trust, government or WLs, I'm pretty sure that even a disseminator of falsehoods like you would choose the latter.

He is guilty of no crime. Only in your crazy world could one consider exposing war criminals as a crime.

Quote:
It is a goal of anarchists to bring the machinary of government to a grinding halt. To convince the governed that not only can they not trust their governments, they cannot rely upon them.


What would lead you to suggest that he is an anarchist? Sources please.


Quote:
Having obainted[sic] [the word is 'obtained'] the hundreds of thousands of sensitive documents, he didn't simply provide the whole world with total access to his entire database. He developed and is executing a plan for periodic and select releases based on timing and subject matter and employing chosen publishing sources.


Why do you keep pointing to WLs and in particular, Mr Assange. How many news agencies have "obainted[sic] the hundreds of thousands of sensitive documents"?

Do you consider that these news agencies are "provid[ing] the whole world with total access to [their] entire database"? And why wouldn't they? Because news agencies develop and execute a plan that will increase readership and then additional revenue.

How many huge corporations are buying ad space at WikiLeaks?

Quote:
What precisely his plan is, I certainly can't say,


Really, what was all the scribbling you did above? You go from lying to hypocrisy to inanity with such ease, Finn. You will never really be much in the way of a Goebbels. You are just too damn dumb. [But that doesn't mean that you won't be able to fool a h2oman type]



Quote:
but there is a plan and there are motives and manipulation. I don't know why we should feel more secure with him having the information to dispense as he sees fit, as opposed to our governments.


Umm, because your governments have constantly lied to you. Your governments have committed war crimes/crimes against humanity/acts of terrorism.


Quote:
Those of us who are citizens of democratic nations have had far more of a say in the appointment of governmental keepers of this information than in the selection of Julian Assange as the private keeper.


That's a crock. You have a choice between the devil and the deep blue sea. Again to illustrate your deep, but actually shallow attempts at deception. These documents are in, have been in the hands of way more people than Julian Assange.

These documents are with at least 100,000 people, or so I'm led to believe. Have there been any massive dumps of highly sensitive/dangerous to others material?

These arguments from the governments against others having the docs are so facile. But facile is one of your strengths, isn't it, Finn?
0 Replies
 
 

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