57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:53 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
Well the confederate states did have a US army base in the middle of their main harbour that the US wouldn't leave after the confederates declared secession. That could be construed as a hostile act
If they had the right to seceed than yes it is a hostile act.

Quote:
I'm pretty sure Japan attacked the US without declaring war
The attack proceeded on time but the decalaration was supposed to be delivered by the Japanese ambassador BEFORE the attack. Due to poor organising, it was delivered AFTER the attack but before the USA public declaration/announcement that it was at war.

Quote:
US responded by declaring war on Germany and Italy
The USA was hesitant to declare war on Germany, worried if the people would go with it. Germany declared war on the USA, and Italy followed suit. The USA announced it was at war with Germany and Italy after they had declared war on the USA.

Quote:
Of course they can't stabilise Afghanistan
How do you know this ?

Quote:
Iraq is teetering
Says who ?

Quote:
they couldn't overcome a certain South East Asian nation
Despite the difficulties, that war was won. The political will failed.

Quote:
JTT kindly rephrase from quoting any more of his tripe
You think JTT is better than William ????
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:58 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
Smedley didn't live to see Pearl Harbor. He died June 21, 1940.
And you are so screwed in the head you think a man who died 60 years ago is the current expert on the USA foriegn policy......may god help you.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:58 pm
Here's the full text of the open letter to the prime minster:

Quote:
We wrote the letter below because we believe that Julian Assange is entitled to all the protections enshrined in the rule of law – and that the Australian Government has an obligation to ensure he receives them.

The signatures here have been collected in the course of a day-and-a-half, primarily from people in publishing, law and politics. The signatories hold divergent views about WikiLeaks and its operations. But they are united in a determination to see Mr Assange treated fairly.

We know that many others would have liked to sign. But given the urgency of the situation, we though it expedient to publish now rather than collect more names.

If, however, you agree with the sentiments expressed, we encourage you to leave your name in the comments section.




Dear Prime Minister,


We note with concern the increasingly violent rhetoric directed towards Julian Assange of WikiLeaks.

“We should treat Mr Assange the same way as other high-value terrorist targets: Kill him,” writes conservative columnist Jeffrey T Kuhner in the Washington Times.

William Kristol, former chief of staff to vice president Dan Quayle, asks, “Why can’t we use our various assets to harass, snatch or neutralize Julian Assange and his collaborators, wherever they are?”

“Why isn’t Julian Assange dead?” writes the prominent US pundit Jonah Goldberg.

“The CIA should have already killed Julian Assange,” says John Hawkins on the Right Wing News site.

Sarah Palin, a likely presidential candidate, compares Assange to an Al Qaeda leader; Rick Santorum, former Pennsylvania senator and potential presidential contender, accuses Assange of “terrorism”.

And so on and so forth.

Such calls cannot be dismissed as bluster. Over the last decade, we have seen the normalisation of extrajudicial measures once unthinkable, from ‘extraordinary rendition’ (kidnapping) to ‘enhanced interrogation’ (torture).

In that context, we now have grave concerns for Mr Assange’s wellbeing.

Irrespective of the political controversies surrounding WikiLeaks, Mr Assange remains entitled to conduct his affairs in safety, and to receive procedural fairness in any legal proceedings against him.

As is well known, Mr Assange is an Australian citizen.

We therefore call upon you to condemn, on behalf of the Australian Government, calls for physical harm to be inflicted upon Mr Assange, and to state publicly that you will ensure Mr Assange receives the rights and protections to which he is entitled, irrespective of whether the unlawful threats against him come from individuals or states.

We urge you to confirm publicly Australia’s commitment to freedom of political communication; to refrain from cancelling Mr Assange's passport, in the absence of clear proof that such a step is warranted; to provide assistance and advocacy to Mr Assange; and do everything in your power to ensure that any legal proceedings taken against him comply fully with the principles of law and procedural fairness.

A statement by you to this effect should not be controversial – it is a simple commitment to democratic principles and the rule of law.

We believe this case represents something of a watershed, with implications that extend beyond Mr Assange and WikiLeaks. In many parts of the globe, death threats routinely silence those who would publish or disseminate controversial material. If these incitements to violence against Mr Assange, a recipient of Amnesty International’s Media Award, are allowed to stand, a disturbing new precedent will have been established in the English-speaking world.

In this crucial time, a strong statement by you and your Government can make an important difference.

We look forward to your response.

Dr Jeff Sparrow, author and editor
Lizzie O’Shea, Social Justice Lawyer, Maurice Blackburn
Professor Noam Chomsky, writer and academic
Antony Loewenstein, journalist and author
Mungo MacCallum, journalist and writer
Professor Peter Singer, author and academic
Adam Bandt, MP
Senator Bob Brown
Senator Scott Ludlam
Julian Burnside QC, barrister
Jeff Lawrence, Secretary, Australian Council of Trade Unions
Professor Raimond Gaita, author and academic
Rob Stary, lawyer
Lieutenant Colonel (ret) Lance Collins, Australian Intelligence Corps, writer
The Hon Alastair Nicholson AO RFD QC
Brian Walters SC, barrister
Professor Larissa Behrendt, academic
Emeritus Professor Stuart Rees, academic, Sydney Peace Foundation
Mary Kostakidis, Chair, Sydney Peace Foundation
Professor Wendy Bacon, journalist
Christos Tsiolkas, author
James Bradley, author and journalist
Julian Morrow, comedian and television producer
Louise Swinn, publisher
Helen Garner, novelist
Professor Dennis Altman, writer and academic
Dr Leslie Cannold, author, ethicist, commentator
John Birmingham, writer
Guy Rundle, writer
Alex Miller, writer
Sophie Cunningham, editor and author
Castan Centre for Human Rights Law
Professor Judith Brett, author and academic
Stephen Keim SC, President of Australian Lawyers for Human Rights
Phil Lynch, Executive Director, Human Rights Law Resource Centre
Sylvia Hale, MLC
Sophie Black, editor
David Ritter, lawyer and historian
Dr Scott Burchill, writer and academic
Dr Mark Davis, author and academic
Henry Rosenbloom, publisher
Ben Naparstek, editor
Chris Feik, editor
Louise Swinn, publisher
Stephen Warne, barrister
Dr John Dwyer QC
Hilary McPhee, writer, publisher
Joan Dwyer OAM
Greg Barns, barrister
James Button, journalist
Owen Richardson, critic
Michelle Griffin, editor
John Timlin, literary Agent & producer
Ann Cunningham, lawyer and publisher
Alison Croggon, author, critic
Daniel Keene, playwright
Dr Nick Shimmin, editor/writer
Bill O'Shea, lawyer, former President, Law Institute of Victoria
Dianne Otto, Professor of Law, Melbourne Law School
Professor Frank Hutchinson,Centre for Peace and Conflict Studies (CPACS), University of Sydney
Anthony Georgeff, editor
Max Gillies, actor
Shane Maloney, writer
Louis Armand, author and publisher
Jenna Price, academic and journalist
Tanja Kovac, National Cooordinator EMILY's List Australia
Dr Russell Grigg, academic
Dr Justin Clemens, writer and academic
Susan Morairty, Lawyer
David Hirsch, Barrister
Cr Anne O’Shea
Kathryn Crosby, Candidates Online
Dr Robert Sparrow, academic
Jennifer Mills, author
Foong Ling Kong, editor
Tim Norton, Online Campaigns Co-ordinator, Oxfam Australia
Elisabeth Wynhausen, writer
Ben Slade, Lawyer
Nikki Anderson, publisher
Dan Cass
Professor Diane Bell, author and academic
Dr Philipa Rothfield, academic
Gary Cazalet, academic
Dr David Coady, academic
Dr Matthew Sharpe, writer and academic
Dr Tamas Pataki, writer and academic
Miska Mandic
Associate Professor Jake Lynch, academic
Professor Simon During, academic
Michael Brull, writer
Dr Geoff Boucher, academic
Jacinda Woodhead, writer and editor
Dr Rjurik Davidson, writer and editor
Mic Looby, writer
Jane Gleeson-White, writer and editor
Alex Skutenko, editor
Associate Professor John Collins, academic
Professor Philip Pettit, academic
Dr Christopher Scanlon, writer and academic
Dr Lawrie Zion, journalist
Johannes Jakob, editor
Sunili Govinnage, lawyer
Michael Bates, lawyer
Bridget Maidment, editor
Bryce Ives, theatre director
Sarah Darmody, writer
Jill Sparrow, writer
Lyn Bender, psychologist
Meredith Rose, editor
Dr Ellie Rennie, President, Engage Media
Ryan Paine, editor
Simon Cooper, editor
Chris Haan, lawyer
Carmela Baranowska, journalist.
Clinton Ellicott, publisher
Dr Charles Richardson, writer and academic
Phillip Frazer, publisher
Geoff Lemon, journalist
Jaya Savige, poet and editor
Johannes Jakob, editor
Kate Bree Geyer; journalist
Chay-Ya Clancy, performer
Lisa Greenaway, editor, writer
Chris Kennett - screenwriter, journalist
Kasey Edwards, author
Dr. Janine Little, academic
Dr Andrew Milner, writer and academic
Patricia Cornelius, writer
Elisa Berg, publisher
Lily Keil, editor
Jenny Sinclair
Roselina Rose
Stephen Luntz
PM Newton
Bryan Cooke
Kristen Obaid
Ryan Haldane-Underwood
Patrick Gardner
Robert Sinnerbrink
Kathryn Millist
Anne Coombs
Karen Pickering
Sarah Mizrahi
Suzanne Ingleton
Jessica Crouch
Michael Ingleton
Matt Griffin
Jane Allen
Tom Curtis
John Connell
David Garland
Stuart Hall
Meredith Tucker-Evans
Phil Perkins
Alexandra Adsett
Tom Doig, editor
Beth Jackson
Peter Mattessi
Robert Sinnerbrink
Greg Black
Paul Ashton
Sigi Jottkandt
Kym Connell, lawyer
Silma Ihram
Nicole Papaleo, lawyer
Melissa Forbes
Matthew Ryan
Ben Gook
Daniel East
Bridget Ikin
Lisa O'Connell
Melissa Cranenburgh
John Bryson
Michael Farrell
Melissa Reeves
Dr Emma Cox
Michael Green
Margherita Tracanelli
David Carlin, writer
Bridget McDonnell
Geoff Page, writer
Rebecca Interdonato
Roxane Ludbrook-Ingleton
Stefan Caramia
Ash Plummer


http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/41914.html
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 12:00 am
@hingehead,
Quote:
Still getting over BillRM's "we've got the most advanced military and we'll do what we want" line. Of course they can't stabilise Afghanistan, and Iraq is teetering (and fighting both at the same time overstretched their advancedness) and they couldn't overcome a certain South East Asian nation even with a kill ratio of 40 to 1. Might is right. Ye


We need a live fire area to test out all our new weapons and keep the troops in top shape.

Did you see the new squad weapon that can place a high explosive shell behind walls at many thousands of feet?

All our troops will soon be equip with it in Afghanistan

No more need to call up and wait for mortar fire.

And then there are more remote control war fighting machines coming on line where we can kill the targets/enemies on the other side of the planet in the air condition comfort of a Las Vegas site.

With luck maybe we will get to chew up the North Korean military shortly and even burn through our supply of old smart weapons doing so.

Alway useful to have a mean of getting usefully rid of older generations of weapons and once more frighting the hell out of the rest of the world as we did in desert storm one.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 12:10 am
@hingehead,
Japan declared war on Dec 7, 1941.
Their formal declaration of war was received 1 hour AFTER the Pearl Harbor attack.
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 12:16 am
@msolga,
Been listening to Philip Adams with Pilger and the journalist whose name I have forgotten.

Transcript not up yet.

Writing to Julia off my own bat!

Just took action via Avaaz.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 12:19 am
@dlowan,
Quote:
Transcript not up yet.


Yes it is, Deb.

It's in the ABC's " Drum" section.

545 extra endorsements so far & growing very fast.

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/41914.html
Ionus
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 12:49 am
@msolga,
I thought we had more left-whingers than that.....is that really all of them ?
dlowan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 12:51 am
@msolga,
Cool!!! I was driving in a deluge and missed some.

God thank the Drum!
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 12:55 am
@Ionus,
It has little to do with left or right wing politics, Ionus.

It has everything to do with supporting the rights & the safety of an Australian citizen. Do you have a problem with that being requested of our government? I would have thought such expectations would be taken for granted.

The open letter has has only been up & running for a very short period of time. I found out about it almost by accident, a very short time ago.



0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 01:01 am
@mysteryman,
Yeah MM, I read that - I clearly stated that Japan attacked Pearl Harbour without declaring war. It was interesting about the negotiations going on at the time (I think they finished 30 minutes before the attack) and the Japanese attempts to get the formal declaration out before the attack but the telegraphing took too long, and US codebreakers had decoded it anyway a few hours before - or something like that.

You still have to give me Italy though, and share the confederacy. I didn't know anything about Smedley - he was right at the time and not wrong too many times since, which I think was the overriding point JTT was trying to make.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 01:10 am
@msolga,
773 posts so far.

But, having been involved in the Drum's discussions before, I know that the ABC's moderation process is very, very slow.

But then, I guess they're the ABC, so they've gotta be very careful.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 01:23 am
@msolga,
1091 posts now.

OK. I promise not to keep updating the number of responses to the open letter to the Australian prime minister.
But I do think this strong online show of support is very important. I can't recall anything quite like this before here.

Let's see how our prime minister responds.

You can go to the site yourself & see for yourself if you care to.:

http://www.abc.net.au/unleashed/41914.html

hawkeye10
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 02:57 am
@msolga,
It is good to see you Australians finally showing a little spine....you all might not be a lost cause after all....Maybe you do want to be free people.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 03:42 am
@msolga,
Cracked 2000
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 03:52 am
@hawkeye10,
Laughing

Honestly, hawkeye, you could do with a little educating in these matters.

You're confusing the Australian people with successive lackey governments.
They are two very different things.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 03:54 am
@hingehead,
Yes, I see that, hinge.
I couldn't even get into the site a minute ago.
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 04:52 am
You know (so long as no harm comes to him, or course) I would rather like this trial to go to court.
Closely monitored by the world press & all the rest of us who will be watching on.
This whole process of "bringing him to justice" sounds like such a farce & the charges against him keep changing.
It would be very interesting to see how these current charges stand up in the cold, hard light of day..:


Quote:

British police arrest Assange

Posted 7 minutes ago
Assange reportedly turned himself in to police.
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201012/r682318_5055002.jpg
Assange reportedly turned himself in to police. (AFP: Fabrice Coffrini, file photo)

WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange has been arrested in Britain after an international warrant was issued for him last week, London's Metropolitan Police said.

Swedish prosecutors issued the arrest order for the Australian who is wanted on suspicion of committing sexual crimes, which he denies.

The latest warrant came as WikiLeaks continued to release more than 250,000 US diplomatic cables, which has left world leaders scrambling to deal with the fallout.

Assange reportedly turned himself in to police at 9:30am (local time). He is expected to appear before the City of Westminster court later on Tuesday (London time).

He has recently been staying in south-east England.

The 39-year-old is also the target of US politicians who are trying to find a way to indict him for his website's latest leaks.

One of his lawyers in England, Jennifer Robinson, says the Swedish prosecutor is ignoring his human rights.

"Now instead of even seeking a formal summons for his interrogation, she has gone direct for an arrest warrant," he said.

"So we absolutely think that it's disproportionate.


"Mr Assange still has not seen the full allegations against him or the potential charges he faces in a language which he understands, which is English, and this is in clear breach of his human rights under the European Convention of Human Rights."

The warrant for Assange's arrest was issued by Sweden's International Public Prosecution Office in Gothenburg on November 18.

That warrant cites "probable cause of suspected rape, sexual molestation and unlawful coercion".


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/12/07/3087385.htm
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:07 am
@msolga,
There are now 2862 responses to the open letter to our prime minister on the ABC news site. In something like 6 hours.

I hope Julia Gillard is reading & listening.

Because if anything untoward happens to Julian Assange, as a result of his arrest & our government's failure to supply him with the protection he deserves as an Australian citizen, there's going to be a hell of a backlash here, I can assure you.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Tue 7 Dec, 2010 05:25 am
@msolga,
3166 posts at the ABC site now, but impossible to get in to read them.
 

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