57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 08:04 pm
@mysteryman,
There million bits of that kind of information out there for anyone to find without the aid of Wikileaks so if Wikileaks happen to add say ten percents to the informations on such matters I do not see the harm.

There is for example is very publicly available information concerning infrastructure if used correctly could allow a small group a good chance of shutting off most of Southern California water supply for a prolong period of time.

Off hand from my own personal knowledge without doing research I know of any numbers of similar weaknesses and there must be many hundreds of thousands of men and women with engineering backgrounds that could name far more such targets then I could.

The information is out there.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 08:15 pm
@mysteryman,
Quote:
The AP is reporting that he published a classified list of foreign electronics firms, fuel depots, food providers and other contractors for the US military. The AP does say that some of that is public info, but not all of it is. How easy do you think it would be to poison a ships crew if you knew exactly where they were getting their foodstuffs from? Even if all you did was make them all extremely sick, it could compromise their mission.


Is it the mission of the USA to commit war crimes in each and every country of the world? If so they are well out in front of the rest of the pack and no one is likely to ever catch them.

You hold this crazy notion the US laws apply to the world. Perhaps you've gotten this from the US illegally invading Panama and illegally taking Manuel Noreiga [sp??] back to the USA for a kangaroo court trial.

BillRM
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 08:19 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
You hold this crazy notion the US laws apply to the world. Perhaps you've gotten this from the US illegally invading Panama and illegally taking Manuel Noreiga [sp??] back to the USA for a kangaroo court trial.


As long as we have the most powerful military the world had ever dream of our laws will apply where ever we say they apply.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 08:22 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
back to the USA for a kangaroo court trial

Strangely apropos in Julian Assange's case...
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 08:38 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
As long as we have the most powerful military the world had ever dream of our laws will apply where ever we say they apply.


Every once in a while we get these honest admissions that the USA is simply a country of war criminals. In this case I think it's simply a case of the poster being dumber than a bag of hammers but nevertheless, he has summed up the USA position of the last couple of centuries.

Even with this honesty, he's wrong. The laws of the United States only apply to poor countries that can't hope to defend themselves. Try this with Russia or China. That really makes the reputation of USA even worse than it already is.

It's simply a big bully. But I'm not really telling anyone anything new here, am I, not even a large number of silent Americans?

Writing this, Cy and Tico came to mind. I remember Tico's plaintive cry, "But the USA isn't a terrorist nation!". Cy assured him it wasn't though he had to eat his words immediately.

But what surprised me, beyond Cy's unbelievable chutzpah, was that Tico, a lawyer, surely he had read a bit, seen some of the world, lived through Reagan's horror against Nicaragua and he doubted that the US was a terrorist nation. Shocked

Well, again, we can hope and pray that this is the start of a new age of information freedom. The USA has been able to perpetuate its crimes simply because there was this silence.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 08:43 pm
@JTT,
Only the great you knew. You didnt know anything about war crimes by other nations....you are not interested in justice, just the US.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 08:48 pm
@Ionus,
Thank you for your comments, Private Benjamin.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 08:52 pm
Smedley was right and overall, he turned out to be quite the prophet.

Quote:
... let us remember that the military deal of our country has never been defensive warfare. Since the Revolution, only the United Kingdom has beaten our record for square miles of territory acquired by military conquest. Our exploits against the American Indian, against the Filipinos, the Mexicans, and against Spain are on a par with the campaigns of Genghis Khan, the Japanese in Manchuria and the African attack of Mussolini.

No country has ever declared war on us before we first obliged them with that gesture. Our whole history shows we have never fought a defensive war. And at the rate our armed forces are being implemented at present, the odds are against our fighting one in the near future.


BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 09:16 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
No country has ever declared war on us before we first obliged them with that gesture.


Off hand Germany did and I am fairly sure that Spain declare war on us before we declare war on them.

So Smedley does not know what he is talking about.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 09:33 pm
@JTT,
Smedley was wrong. The Confederat States declared war first. Both Germany and Italy declared war on the US first.
Ionus
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 09:50 pm
@mysteryman,
So did Japan. The declaration was delivered AFTER the attack.
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 09:50 pm
@mysteryman,
Mysteryman is correct.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 10:07 pm
@mysteryman,
That is oh so lame, MM, but you are, after all, MM.

I found it. It wasn't an honest politician or a member of cabinet. It was a low life piece of scum revealing exactly what the USA is.

Quote:


George Kennan, Cold War Planner for the USA in 1948:

"We have 50% of the world's wealth, but only 6.3% of its population. In this situation, our real job in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which permit us to maintain this position of disparity. To do so, we have to dispense with all sentimentality...we should cease thinking about human rights, the raising of living standards and democratisation."





hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 10:35 pm
@mysteryman,
Well the confederate states did have a US army base in the middle of their main harbour that the US wouldn't leave after the confederates declared secession. That could be construed as a hostile act - I guess (even though it feels like splitting hairs given it's the same country in a civil war).

I'm pretty sure Japan attacked the US without declaring war, but the US responded by declaring war on Germany and Italy as well as Japan. So technically Smedley is right, and MM is wrong (about Germany and Italy).

I still think the US can rightfully claim that the war against the Japanese was a defensive war. One out of how many? ain't bad.

Still getting over BillRM's "we've got the most advanced military and we'll do what we want" line. Of course they can't stabilise Afghanistan, and Iraq is teetering (and fighting both at the same time overstretched their advancedness) and they couldn't overcome a certain South East Asian nation even with a kill ratio of 40 to 1. Might is right. Yeah. BillRM is the assholiness of cluelessness. JTT kindly rephrase from quoting any more of his tripe - I ignore him for a reason that just reminded me of.
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 10:58 pm
@JTT,
Lame??? How??? I corrected your statement.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:05 pm
@mysteryman,
Smedley didn't live to see Pearl Harbor. He died June 21, 1940.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:07 pm
@hingehead,
Quote:
JTT kindly rephrase from


Refrain - of course. Stupid Iphone autocorrect. Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:18 pm
@hingehead,
hingehead wrote:

I'm pretty sure Japan attacked the US without declaring war, but the US responded by declaring war on Germany and Italy as well as Japan. So technically Smedley is right, and MM is wrong (about Germany and Italy).



No. You are incorrect. Germany, and possibly Italy declared war on the US. That was their treaty obligation to Japan.
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:30 pm
@roger,
Willing to concede that the order of formal declarations may prove me wrong Roger - although the Tripartite pact had no obligation for Germany to declare war because Japan did. I just can't find out definitively when the Japanese declared war, and whether the US beat Germany to it. But the Germans probably thought it was a no-brainer given the US's less than clandestine support for Britain's war effort through the Lend-Lease program enacted into law in March 1941. Big error.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 11:52 pm
Pardon this interruption, guys ...

Some news from Australia ...

Things appear to be getting rather hot for prime minister, Julia Gillard.

First there was this, earlier in the day:


Quote:
Gillard 'prejudicing Assange's right to trial'
Updated 2 hours 47 minutes ago

Prime Minister Julia Gillard has been accused of possibly prejudicing any future case against WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange by claiming he is "guilty of illegality" for leaking US diplomatic cables. ...<cont>


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/12/07/3086962.htm



And now this ...

(Looks like a the start of a campaign similar to the one to free David Hicks from Guantanamo Bay to me.)


Quote:
Open letter calls for Gillard to defend Assange
Updated 14 minutes ago

Prominent US figures have called for Mr Assange's death since WikiLeaks began releasing hundreds of US diplomatic cables.
http://www.abc.net.au/reslib/201012/r684545_5090159.jpg
Prominent US figures have called for Mr Assange's death since WikiLeaks began releasing hundreds of US diplomatic cables. (Reuters: Valentin Flauraud)

A group of almost 200 prominent names have appealed to Prime Minister Julia Gillard to defend WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange.

Many prominent US figures have called for Mr Assange's death since his whistleblower organisation began releasing hundreds of US diplomatic cables last month.

And Ms Gillard has been accused by Mr Assange's lawyers of prejudicing any case against him by claiming he is "guilty of illegality" for leaking the documents.

But in the open letter posted on the ABC's Drum website, figures such as writer Noam Chomsky, former Family Court chief justice Alastair Nicholson, retired intelligence officer Lance Collins and actor Max Gillies call on Ms Gillard to ensure Mr Assange's safety in light of the inflammatory rhetoric surrounding WikiLeaks.

"We therefore call upon you to condemn, on behalf of the Australian Government, calls for physical harm to be inflicted upon Mr Assange and to state publicly that you will ensure Mr Assange receives the rights and protections to which he is entitled, irrespective of whether the unlawful threats against him come from individuals or states,"
they write.

In the letter, almost 200 signatories including Chaser star Julian Morrow, Greens MP Adam Bandt and author Helen Garner, say the Prime Minister needs to make a strong statement in support of freedom of information and resist calls to punish Mr Assange for the leaks.

"We urge you to confirm publicly Australia's commitment to freedom of political communication; to refrain from cancelling Mr Assange's passport, in the absence of clear proof that such a step is warranted; to provide assistance and advocacy to Mr Assange; and do everything in your power to ensure that any legal proceedings taken against him comply fully with the principles of law and procedural fairness,"
the letter states.

"A statement by you to this effect should not be controversial - it is a simple commitment to democratic principles and the rule of law."

It says the leaks represent a "watershed" in the cause of freedom of speech, and the Government can make a difference by speaking out in defence of Mr Assange.

"In many parts of the globe, death threats routinely silence those who would publish or disseminate controversial material," it writes.

"If these incitements to violence against Mr Assange, a recipient of Amnesty International's Media Award, are allowed to stand, a disturbing new precedent will have been established in the English-speaking world."


Mr Assange has become the focal point for anger over the latest leaks, which detail private cables of US diplomats and have revealed damaging and embarrassing information about senior government figures around the world.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2010/12/07/3087189.htm
0 Replies
 
 

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