57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 04:33 pm
@msolga,
Also this:

Account closed due to "false information" provided by Julian Assange.

Pretty incredible.


Quote:

Julian Assange's Swiss bank account closed

guardian.co.uk, Monday 6 December 2010 17.46 GMT

WikiLeaks founder has account – used for donations – closed by PostFinance owing to 'false information' about residency.

http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Guardian/Pix/pictures/2010/12/4/1291504559240/Julian-Assange-006.jpg
Julian Assange According to reports, Scotland Yard had received the paperwork required to arrest Julian Assange over allegations in Sweden. Photograph: Lennart Preiss/AP

The international pressure on Julian Assange increased today after the banking arm of the Swiss post office announced that it had closed the WikiLeaks founder's account because he had given "false information".

"PostFinance has ended its business relationship with … Julian Paul Assange," the bank said in a statement.

"The Australian citizen provided false information regarding his place of residence during the account opening process."

It said that although Assange had given his residence as an undisclosed address in Geneva, he could offer no proof of being a Swiss resident.

WikiLeaks had advertised the PostFinance account details online to "donate directly to the Julian Assange and other WikiLeaks Staff Defence Fund," giving an account name of "Assange Julian Paul, Geneve".

A spokesman for the bank told the Associated Press the account was closed this afternoon, but added that there would be "no criminal consequences" for misleading authorities.

"That's his money, he will get his money back," he said. "We just close the account and that's it."

PostFinance is the latest institution to sever its ties with Assange and WikiLeaks. Last week, Amazon.com withdrew its hosting of WikiLeaks' cables site and the WikiLeaks.org domain was taken offline by Everydns.net. On Saturday, PayPal, which is owned by the auction website eBay, froze WikiLeaks' account, saying it was being used for "illegal" activity. ..<cont>

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/dec/06/julian-assange-swiss-bank-account
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 04:35 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
I agree that it is important to expose war crimes, but is disrupting diplomacy the best way to do it? Diplomacy is the best avenue to prevent war in the first place.


Most of this isn't diplomacy, JW. Real diplomacy would have stopped Bush from invading both Afghanistan and Iraq. There was no diplomacy on the part of the US. Invasion was a forgone conclusion, 9/11 the excuse.

The Taliban had made their choice; US interests were not to be part of any Caspian Sea pipeline and that was simply unacceptable to the US.

Why protect something that is failing so miserably? Expose the scoundrels for what they are. Demand that governments are held to account. There has been none of that wrt either Iraq or Afghanistan.

BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 04:43 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
The Taliban had made their choice; US interests were not to be part of any Caspian Sea pipeline and that was simply unacceptable to the US.


You have perhaps forgotten the hole in the ground in NY and the fact that the Taliban was protecting the happy campers who created it?

Or that the US ask very nicely for the Taliban to turn them over before we went into that country?
hingehead
 
  2  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 04:51 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
Julian Assange's Swiss bank account closed


The same Swiss banks that held stolen and embezzled monies for Nazi war criminals? Nice change of conscience.

Yet again this brings to mind Assange's statement in the Guardian
Quote:
The west has fiscalised its basic power relationships through a web of contracts, loans, shareholdings, bank holdings and so on. In such an environment it is easy for speech to be "free" because a change in political will rarely leads to any change in these basic instruments. Western speech, as something that rarely has any effect on power, is, like badgers and birds, free. In states like China, there is pervasive censorship, because speech still has power and power is scared of it. We should always look at censorship as an economic signal that reveals the potential power of speech in that jurisdiction. The attacks against us by the US point to a great hope, speech powerful enough to break the fiscal blockade.
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 04:53 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
According to msolga, Assange's answer to charges that he has blood on his hands is that he, allegedly, gave the US government the opportunity to vet the information and tell him what items might cause individual harm. That they did not, puts the responsibility for such harm on them.

If this is true, it is a clever but entirely cynical dodge of personal responsibility, and it's hard to imagine how anyone of good will might accept it as morally legitimate.


Actually, it wasn't his answer.
The quote I supplied was from a BBC article which mentioned his correspondence with US authorities prior to releasing the leaks.:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-11882092

0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 04:58 pm
@spendius,
Quote:
People are a rabble without government.


That's no reason to allow felons and war criminals to be the government.

Quote:
Then the people are responsible for the offences you often list.


In a way that's certainly true, but the people are not the ones held to account. Why you continue with this sort of deception is beyond me.

Quote:
Christians do not rape, murder and torture. You're using the word the way you want to. Please don't think you are the only one who objects to those things. Abu Graid and the row over waterboarding is proof enough that the American people are against such things. Claiming to be a Christian does not make a person one.


The list of real Christians must be tiny indeed and it sure couldn't have anything to do with any churches.

It certainly does. The tithes that these people pay are welcomed by their churches. George Bush [and all the others] wasn't given the heave ho from his church after he committed all those war crimes.

It was liberals who did the business in Vietnam wasn't it. And dirty realpolitik people who ended it. [/quote]

You make the silly assumption that Democrat means liberal. Both major US parties have copious numbers of war criminals.

Quote:
Most dead Iraqis were killed by Iraqis. Nobody was ever going to forget appeasing Hitler. You have no idea what would be happening if Saddam was still running mad.


When is this specious argument going to be put to rest? Pointing to another murderer isn't going to save your ass, Spendi, should you feel inclined to murder.

The USA, in conjunction with its lapdog, the UK, set the stage for all the harm that came to the people of Iraq. Without that illegal invasion, the vast majority of the one million or so would have come to no harm.

And you keep forgetting to mention just what great buddies Saddam and the US/UK were before he got these silly ideas in his head that he was actually the ruler of Iraq.


Quote:
They are decisions I'm glad I'm not called upon to make.


Well, I certainly second that. I wouldn't want a war monger like you making those decisions either.

Quote:
When you fall back on me being "soused" you really are scraping the bottom.


My apologies. Note that you filed to address the point. That's CI's money and he is free to do with it as he likes.

You could take the money you spend on getting tipsy and put it to some better use, your offspring, the poor box, ... .

JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 05:10 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
"PostFinance has ended its business relationship with … Julian Paul Assange," the bank said in a statement.

"The Australian citizen provided false information regarding his place of residence during the account opening process."

It said that although Assange had given his residence as an undisclosed address in Geneva, he could offer no proof of being a Swiss resident.


What clued them in ya figure, the fact that he had an Aussie accent?

No, couldn't have been, they allowed him to open an account. Hhe probably disguised his voice, choosing to speak in a fluent combination of German/French/Italian/Rumantsch. That must have tricked whoever accepted the information when he opened the account into thinking he was a Swiss national.

Isn't this the country that just got caught opening accounts for all manner of foreigner hiding income from the US and other countries?
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 05:20 pm
Unbelievable the witch hunt that the U.S. has launched to bring down Julian
Assange. If they would have used similar resources, Bin Laden would be in
captivity by now...
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 05:23 pm
@CalamityJane,
CalamityJane wrote:

Unbelievable the witch hunt that the U.S. has launched to bring down Julian
Assange. If they would have used similar resources, Bin Laden would be in
captivity by now...


Yup. And he's committed no crime; his organization has not been charged with a crime; most legal experts agree that you couldn't try him if you wanted to. Yet this harassment continues.

He is the harbinger of the REAL new world order: the end of the secrecy and security state. It is extremely threatening both to governments, big business, and the current useless political media. So they are all attacking him. Predictable but pathetic.

Cycloptichorn
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 05:40 pm
@JTT,
I had no idea that a Swiss bank like PostFinance could be so so finicky about the small details of anyone's account with them.
I wonder if any of those corrupt Afghan politicians, siphoning off mega US $$$ do? Or do they all carry around their booty in suitcases? Wink

That's it!
I'm canceling my Swiss bank account in protest! Razz
0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 05:43 pm
@hingehead,
Yes!
Exactly, hinge!
Exactly.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 06:05 pm
@BillRM,
Quote:
You have perhaps forgotten the hole in the ground in NY and the fact that the Taliban was protecting the happy campers who created it?


The Taliban were not protecting OBL. Take off your tin hat, Bill. The Taliban had made diplomatic overtures before 9/11 to hand over OBL. After 9/11, they made the same offers.

Quote:
Or that the US ask very nicely for the Taliban to turn them over before we went into that country?


What planet are you from? The USA rarely asks nicely, about anything. It is as bellicose a country as has ever existed. It is as duplicitous a country as has ever existed on the planet.

The record shows that it is the one who puts a false face forward pretending diplomacy but it acts in the background to kaibosh any real efforts.

Quote:
II. Did 9/11 Provide Moral Justification for the War in Afghanistan?

The American public has for the most part probably been unaware of the illegality of this war, because this is not something our political leaders or our corporate media have been anxious to point out.8 So most people simply do not know.

If they were informed, however, many Americans would be inclined to argue that, even if technically illegal, the US military effort in Afghanistan has been morally justified, or at least it was in the beginning, by the attacks of 9/11. For a summary statement of this argument, we can turn again to the West Point speech of President Obama, who has taken over the Bush-Cheney account of 9/11. Answering the question of “why America and our allies were compelled to fight a war in Afghanistan in the first place,” Obama said:
“We did not ask for this fight. On September 11, 2001, nineteen men hijacked four airplanes and used them to murder nearly 3,000 people. They struck at our military and economic nerve centers. They took the lives of innocent men, women and children without regard to their faith or race or station. . . . As we know, these men belonged to al Qaeda – a group of extremists who have distorted and defiled Islam. . . . [A]fter the Taliban refused to turn over Osama bin Laden - we sent our troops into Afghanistan.”9
This standard account can be summarized in terms of three points:

1. The attacks were carried out by 19 Muslim members of al-Qaeda.

2. The attacks had been authorized by the founder of al-Qaeda, Osama bin Laden, who was in Afghanistan.

3. The US invasion of Afghanistan was necessary because the Taliban, which was in control of Afghanistan, refused to turn bin Laden over to US authorities.

On the basis of these three points, our political leaders have claimed that the United States had the moral right, arising from the universal right of self-defense, to attempt to capture or kill bin Laden and his al-Qaeda network to prevent them from launching another attack on our country.

The only problem with this argument is that all three points are false. I will show this by looking at these points in reverse order.

1. Did the United States Attack Afghanistan because the Taliban Refused to Turn Over Bin Laden?

The claim that the Taliban refused to turn over Bin Laden has been repeatedly made by political leaders and our mainstream media.10 Reports from the time, however, show the truth to be very different.

A. Who Refused Whom?

Ten days after the 9/11 attacks, CNN reported:
“The Taliban . . . refus[ed] to hand over bin Laden without proof or evidence that he was involved in last week's attacks on the United States. . . . The Taliban ambassador to Pakistan . . . said Friday that deporting him without proof would amount to an ‘insult to Islam.’"
CNN also made clear that the Taliban’s demand for proof was not made without reason, saying:
“Bin Laden himself has already denied he had anything to do with the attacks, and Taliban officials repeatedly said he could not have been involved in the attacks.”
Bush, however, “said the demands were not open to negotiation or discussion.”11

With this refusal to provide any evidence of bin Laden’s responsibility, the Bush administration made it impossible for the Taliban to turn him over. As Afghan experts quoted by the Washington Post pointed out, the Taliban, in order to turn over a fellow Muslim to an “infidel” Western nation, needed a “face-saving formula.” Milton Bearden, who had been the CIA station chief in Afghanistan in the 1980s, put it this way: While the United States was demanding, “Give up bin Laden,” the Taliban were saying, “Do something to help us give him up.”12 But the Bush administration refused.

After the bombing began in October, moreover, the Taliban tried again, offering to turn bin Laden over to a third country if the United States would stop the bombing and provide evidence of his guilt. But Bush replied: "There's no need to discuss innocence or guilt. We know he's guilty." An article in London’s Guardian, which reported this development, was entitled: “Bush Rejects Taliban Offer to Hand Bin Laden Over.”13 So it was the Bush administration, not the Taliban, that was responsible for the fact that bin Laden was not turned over.

In August of 2009, President Obama, who had criticized the US invasion of Iraq as a war of choice, said of the US involvement in Afghanistan: “This is not a war of choice. This is a war of necessity.”14 But the evidence shows, as we have seen, that it, like the one in Iraq, is a war of choice.

B. What Was the Motive for the Invasion?

This conclusion is reinforced by reports indicating that the United States had made the decision to invade Afghanistan two months before the 9/11 attacks. At least part of the background to this decision was the United States’ long-time support for UNOCAL’s proposed pipeline, which would transport oil and natural gas from the Caspian Sea region to the Indian Ocean through Afghanistan and Pakistan.15 This project had been stymied through the 1990s because of the civil war that had been going on in Afghanistan since the Soviet withdrawal in 1989.

In the mid-1990s, the US government had supported the Taliban with the hope that its military strength would enable it to unify the country and provide a stable government, which could protect the pipeline. By the late 1990s, however, the Clinton administration had given up on the Taliban.16

When the Bush administration came to power, it decided to give the Taliban one last chance. During a four-day meeting in Berlin in July 2001, representatives of the Bush administration insisted that the Taliban must create a government of “national unity” by sharing power with factions friendly to the United States. The US representatives reportedly said: “Either you accept our offer of a carpet of gold, or we bury you under a carpet of bombs.”17

After the Taliban refused this offer, US officials told a former Pakistani foreign secretary that “military action against Afghanistan would go ahead . . . before the snows started falling in Afghanistan, by the middle of October at the latest.”18 And, indeed, given the fact that the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon occurred when they did, the US military was able to mobilize to begin its attack on Afghanistan by October 7.

It appears, therefore, that the United States invaded Afghanistan for reasons far different from the official rationale, according to which we were there to capture or kill Osama bin Laden.

2. Has Good Evidence of Bin Laden’s Responsibility Been Provided?

I turn now to the second point: the claim that Osama bin Laden had authorized the attacks. Even if it refused to give the Taliban evidence for this claim, the Bush administration surely – most Americans probably assume – had such evidence and provided it to those who needed it. Again, however, reports from the time indicate otherwise.

A. The Bush Administration

Two weeks after 9/11, Secretary of State Colin Powell said that he expected “in the near future . . . to put out . . . a document that will describe quite clearly the evidence that we have linking [bin Laden] to this attack.”19 But at a joint press conference with President Bush the next morning, Powell withdrew this pledge, saying that “most of [the evidence] is classified.”20 Seymour Hersh, citing officials from both the CIA and the Department of Justice, said the real reason why Powell withdrew the pledge was a “lack of solid information.”21

B. The British Government

The following week, British Prime Minister Tony Blair issued a document to show that “Osama Bin Laden and al-Qaeda, the terrorist network which he heads, planned and carried out the atrocities on 11 September 2001.” Blair’s report, however, began by saying: “This document does not purport to provide a prosecutable case against Osama Bin Laden in a court of law.”22 So, the case was good enough to go to war, but not good enough to take to court. The next day, the BBC emphasized this weakness, saying: “There is no direct evidence in the public domain linking Osama Bin Laden to the 11 September attacks.”23

C. The FBI

What about our own FBI? Its “Most Wanted Terrorist” webpage on “Usama bin Laden” does not list 9/11 as one of the terrorist acts for which he is wanted.24 When asked why not, the FBI’s chief of investigative publicity replied: “because the FBI has no hard evidence connecting Bin Laden to 9/11.”25

D. The 9/11 Commission

What about the 9/11 Commission? Its entire report is based on the assumption that bin Laden was behind the attacks. However, the report’s evidence to support this premise has been disowned by the Commission’s own co-chairs, Thomas Kean and Lee Hamilton.

This evidence consisted of testimony that had reportedly been elicited by the CIA from al-Qaeda operatives. The most important of these operatives was Khalid Sheikh Mohammed – generally known simply as “KSM” – who has been called the “mastermind” of the 9/11 attacks. If you read the 9/11 Commission’s account of how bin Laden planned the attacks, and then check the notes, you will find that almost every note says that the information came from KSM.26

In 2006, Kean and Hamilton wrote a book giving “the inside story of the 9/11 Commission,” in which they called this information untrustworthy. They had no success, they reported, in “obtaining access to star witnesses in custody . . . , most notably Khalid Sheikh Mohammed.”27 Besides not being allowed by the CIA to interview KSM, they were not permitted to observe his interrogation through one-way glass. They were not even allowed to talk to the interrogators.28 Therefore, Kean and Hamilton complained:
“We . . . had no way of evaluating the credibility of detainee information. How could we tell if someone such as Khalid Sheikh Mohammed . . . was telling us the truth?”29
They could not.

Accordingly, neither the Bush administration, the British government, the FBI, nor the 9/11 Commission ever provided good evidence of bin Laden’s responsibility for the attacks.

E. Did Bin Laden Confess?

Some people argue, to be sure, that such evidence soon became unnecessary because bin Laden admitted his responsibility in a videotape that was discovered by the US military in Jalalabad, Afghanistan, in November 2001. But besides the fact that bin Laden had previously denied his involvement many times,30 bin Laden experts have called this later video a fake,31 and for good reasons. Many of the physical features of the man in this video are different from those of Osama bin Laden (as seen in undoubtedly authentic videos), and he said many things that bin Laden himself would not have said.32

The FBI, in any case, evidently does not believe that this video provides hard evidence of bin Laden’s responsibility for 9/11, or it would have revised its “Most Wanted Terrorist” page on him after this video surfaced.

So, to review the first two points: The Taliban said it would turn over bin Laden if our government would give it good evidence of his responsibility for 9/11, but our government refused. And good evidence of this responsibility has never been given to the public.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=19891


0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  0  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 06:32 pm
@JTT,
Quote:
That's no reason to allow felons and war criminals to be the government.


I never vote. You can't blame me for that.

Quote:
The list of real Christians must be tiny indeed and it sure couldn't have anything to do with any churches.


Well--I never said anything disputing that.

Quote:
You make the silly assumption that Democrat means liberal. Both major US parties have copious numbers of war criminals.


Goodness gracious me!!

Quote:
When is this specious argument going to be put to rest? Pointing to another murderer isn't going to save your ass, Spendi, should you feel inclined to murder.


That's specious. You didn't answer the point. You don't know what would be happening now. You are comparing a real thing to some cute idea of your own.

Quote:
And you keep forgetting to mention just what great buddies Saddam and the US/UK were before he got these silly ideas in his head that he was actually the ruler of Iraq.


We tried to be "great buddies" but he did get the silly ideas.

Quote:
Well, I certainly second that. I wouldn't want a war monger like you making those decisions either.


Pacifists do hold the moral high ground I will admit. Darwin said they are dead in the water. Thus powerless to do good in the long run.

Of course ci. is free to do what he wants with his money. He ought to be more grateful for that than he said.

Quote:
You could take the money you spend on getting tipsy and put it to some better use, your offspring, the poor box.


Priorities are the government's job. I never complain about taxes.

0 Replies
 
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 07:06 pm
But back to Afghanistan today & the Wikileaks.

When the US ambassador's assessment of the extent of the "overwhelming" corruption in Afghanistan was leaked, it hardly caused a ripple.
I mean, we already knew about corruption in Afghanistan, didn't we?
So what's new about about these leaks? Old news.

Me, I saw these Afghanistan leaks a bit differently. What was described in this NYT article seemed almost an official acknowledgment of defeat of any US-led attempt to stabilize the country, because the level of corruption was so overwhelming. There was a sense of despair expressed by the US government's ambassadorial representative in Afghanistan. Only one identifiable honest Afghan politician?

So surely the next questions would have to be: why are we staying there till 2014, if this is the US view?

What exactly will be achieved by staying on, apart from more deaths & maimings of Afghan citizens & yet more NATO & other troop casualties?

If the acknowledged level of corruption of the government of Afghanistan is such an overwhelming source of that county's woes, why does the US & it's allies believe some sort military "solution" is appropriate?

Maybe the Afghan government is a bigger source of instability in Afghanistan than the Taliban?

And, of course, Afghan citizens would be fully aware of the incredible levels of of corruption. How are we winning their hearts & minds by propping up a government that no doubt many despise?

Sure, these could appear to be the same old questions many of us have been asking again & again ... BUT if the US government is fully aware & acknowledges the impossibility, almost, of changing the situation in Afghanistan, what exactly is fueling this policy of endless war?
Who is benefiting from endless war?
What exactly is being gained from it?
And is it, in fact, making the world a safer place?


Perfectly reasonable questions, which surely we have the right to expect answers to?


Quote:
....It is hardly news that predatory corruption, fueled by a booming illicit narcotics industry, is rampant at every level of Afghan society. Transparency International, an advocacy organization that tracks government corruption around the globe, ranks Afghanistan as the world’s third most corrupt country, behind Somalia and Myanmar.

But the collection of confidential diplomatic cables obtained by WikiLeaks and made available to a number of publications, offers a fresh sense of its pervasive nature, its overwhelming scale, and the dispiriting challenge it poses to American officials who have made shoring up support for the Afghan government a cornerstone of America’s counterinsurgency strategy in Afghanistan.

The cables make it clear that American officials see the problem as beginning at the top. ....


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/12/03/world/asia/03wikileaks-corruption.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp
msolga
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 07:39 pm
Just found this video on the (Oz) ABC's news site.

One of Julian Assange's team of lawyers speaks to the ABC.

A lot more detail here about the Swedish charges & his response to them than we've previously had access to.

It certainly looks as though he's been a lot more cooperative with the Swedish authorities than we've been led to believe
.

Quote:
VIDEO: Assange to meet British police
Source: ABC News
Published: Tuesday, December 7, 2010 8:56 AEDT
Expires: Monday, March 7, 2011 8:56 AEDT

Julian Assange's lawyer Jennifer Robinson says a fresh warrant for the arrest of the Australian Wikileaks founder has reached UK police.


http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2010/12/07/3086523.htm
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 07:40 pm
@msolga,
Quote:
So surely the next questions would have to be: why are we staying there till 2014, if this is the US view?


The vast mineral wealth that the US Geologic Survey knew was there. I suspect that the US is till hoping that this gigantic foot in the door is going to help them. Even Hamid said that the Japanese would be the ones to help develop the resources because they had helped the Afghan people.

But I don't think Hamid is long for living in Afghanistan. If he doesn't move out, I doubt that he is long for this world either. Remember the Afghan leader who was the USSR puppet.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 07:44 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Actually, he might have committed a crime. The AP is reporting that he published a classified list of foreign electronics firms, fuel depots, food providers and other contractors for the US military. The AP does say that some of that is public info, but not all of it is. How easy do you think it would be to poison a ships crew if you knew exactly where they were getting their foodstuffs from? Even if all you did was make them all extremely sick, it could compromise their mission.
I will post a link to that article when I get off work tonite, I havent figured out how to copy and laste a link from this phone yet.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 07:50 pm
One of the good things that could come out of all of this is a wider realization that the USA is not all that it's cracked up to be. I believe that if a world wide survey was done, most would think that the USA has gotten involved in all these invasions for altruistic purposes.

[Maybe that would only be for "western" countries.]

This is, of course, light years from the truth yet many still believe this canard. There's even a goodly number of Americans who believe this canard. There's also a large number of Americans who know that it's specious nonsense but they do all they can to perpetuate the myth or perpetuate the myth by remaining silent.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 07:54 pm
@mysteryman,
'May' is still presuming guilt.

It isn't hard to find out who is supplying food to a naval ship. If anonymity is the only security they have against the sort of action you are talking about then I'd suggest they have no security at all.
0 Replies
 
hingehead
 
  1  
Reply Mon 6 Dec, 2010 08:01 pm
http://main.makeuseoflimited.netdna-cdn.com/tech-fun/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/obamafacebook.png
0 Replies
 
 

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