57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 10:47 pm
@electronicmail,
Quote:
Does that mean that anyone who read the WikiLeaks on the New York Times or the Guardian is also subject to prosecution? That's getting to be an awful lot of us.
Not me ! I wish to declare my complete allegiance...I mean innocence....
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 01:19 am
@electronicmail,
Quote:
I didn't read the WikiLeaks site but I read those 2 papers online. Now what?


Go down to your local precinct, make a full confession that you have committed treason and prepare to meet your maker.
JPB
 
  3  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 06:53 am
@electronicmail,
I'll dig back and find FA's explanation later. But reading an article about classified information doesn't put you in possession of classified information.
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 08:07 am
@failures art,
Bumping this up for those talking about "new" directives.

failures art wrote:

JPB wrote:

Wandel and FA, I'm glad you're both here. I'm curious about the tenor and directions coming from within the government over all of this. Are you able to share, without damaging your own positions of course, whether government employees are being given talking points and/or encouragement to discuss the WL situation with their non-government friends/families/contacts?

I've been given no talking points. It is not as if this issue monopolizes the daily operations of my job. I have however discusses this amongst DoD and IC individuals, and read the local blogs on our networks (we have internal things similar to things on the WWW). My feeling is that many people are very upset, but upset most about the incompleteness of the picture and their inability to clarify anything. This is the whole partial truths aren't honesty bit.

The only direction we get is to not visit the site. This isn't a reactionary policy despite what the media is saying. Disclosed classified documents are still classified unless declassified, and viewing classified docs on an unclassified network/system (like my laptop) has always been a security violation. If gov officials or contractors have the clearance and need to know, they can already access these documents via the appropriate channels. People who are portraying this policy as being tailored especially due to the WL controversy are uninformed or being dishonest. This policy out dates WL and the public internet itself.

I have not been encouraged or discouraged from talking about this topic.

A
R
T
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 08:25 am
@JPB,
That's not what the law says. Did you read it?
http://codes.lp.findlaw.com/uscode/18/I/37/793
Quote:
(a) Whoever, for the purpose of obtaining information respecting
the national defense with intent or reason to believe that the
information is to be used to the injury of the United States, or to
the advantage of any foreign nation,
goes upon, enters, flies over,
or otherwise obtains information concerning any vessel, aircraft,
work of defense, navy yard, naval station, submarine base, fueling
station, fort, battery, torpedo station, dockyard, canal, railroad,
arsenal, camp, factory, mine, telegraph, telephone, wireless, or
signal station, building, office, research laboratory or station or
other place connected with the national defense owned or
constructed, or in progress of construction by the United States or
under the control of the United States, or of any of its officers,
departments, or agencies, or within the exclusive jurisdiction of
the United States.....

.......h)(1) Any person convicted of a violation of this section shall
forfeit to the United States, irrespective of any provision of
State law, any property constituting, or derived from, any proceeds
the person obtained, directly or indirectly, from any foreign
government, or any faction or party or military or naval force
within a foreign country, whether recognized or unrecognized by the
United States, as the result of such violation.


So (a) is you take a picture at a parade, you're guilty, and (h)1 is you sell the picture you got to turn over the proceeds to the IRS. How did Assange make out of this, financially? Making out with Swedish babes counts?
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 08:29 am
@JTT,
Nope. I didn't do any of these, no "gather, transmit, lose":
Quote:
18 U.S.C. § 793 : US Code - Section 793: Gathering, transmitting or losing defense information

Reading the leaked documents isn't included.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 08:40 am
@electronicmail,
Yeah, I read it. I made the personal decision that I didn't need to go wading through the cables myself. If it was important enough to me to challenge the interpretation of the law vs the directives given gov't employees (I'm not a gov't employee) I'd wade in up to my neck. It's not on my pile of soapboxes I need to climb on.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 08:57 am
Day 2 blog/live updates
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/blog/2011/feb/08/julian-assange-extradition-hearing-live
0 Replies
 
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 09:11 am
@JPB,
The cables republished in the NYT etc aren't covered, only the WikiLeaks site.

Unless the NYT gets nabbed on the "transmit" charge?
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 09:18 am
@electronicmail,
I actually see it as a threat to gov't employees to "behave". There was one article linked when we were discussing this that the outcome is that gov't employees end up being the least informed people on the planet.
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 09:20 am
@JPB,
The cables weren't classified "top secret"
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/29/world/29cables.html?pagewanted=2
Quote:
The 251,287 cables, first acquired by WikiLeaks, were provided to The Times by an intermediary on the condition of anonymity. Many are unclassified, and none are marked “top secret,” the government’s most secure communications status.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 09:22 am
@electronicmail,
This has all been covered earlier in the thread.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 10:27 am
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

I actually see it as a threat to gov't employees to "behave". There was one article linked when we were discussing this that the outcome is that gov't employees end up being the least informed people on the planet.


Strange conclusion in that article. Most people would agree that Failures Art is one of the better informed people on A2K.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:04 am
We were told last night that Bradley Manning has been held in solitary confinement for almost 300 days.

What's going on with that. The kid is no traitor. A fool maybe. A joker even. A complete idiot possibly.

As counsel for Marshal Bazaine said of the charge of treason against him-- "This is no traitor. Look at him; he is only a blunderer."

Closer to traitor in my book are those feeding their careers and opportunities to cash in off an already cash-strapped defence budget by exaggerating his supposed villainy. A pot of mud-honey for dipping into without any risk, effort, competence or decency. A kid hung out to dry so they can prosper and posture as patriots and get the cash and the plaudits. A butterfly broken on their wheel.

And many think he has done us all a good turn. Not that I necessarily do but nearly a year in solitary is just not right for a moment of nutty bravado no doubt brought on by exposure to the praise of "openness" and "transparency" often from the highest pulpits in the land.

Bradley's state is a disgrace to all you freedom lovers. It is inhuman.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 11:26 am
@spendius,
Finn and I were discussing this earlier, as I had read (somewhere) quite harsh reports; Finn said I was incorrect (or the equivalent); then I backed down, having read this article - which described him having visits from family and friends on weekends.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/14/world/14manning.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all

It said in that article about a report on his conditions being taken to the UN (I haven't read what happened re that).
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  3  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 12:14 pm
In court today, one of Assange's attorneys complained about details leaked to the media about the charges against Assange.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 12:27 pm
@wandeljw,
I can't understand why the US is bothering about all this. If it's such a big deal where was the security on the cables?

It's done. How long is the US going to continue to draw attention to it? The EU court is a long road to travel.

I don't agree with military custody anyway. It's what the demonstrations in Cairo are mainly about.
0 Replies
 
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 01:20 pm
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

[Strange conclusion in that article. Most people would agree that Failures Art is one of the better informed people on A2K.

http://current.com/news/92954800_bradley-manning-is-a-british-citizen-but-why-isnt-the-uk-government-helping-him.htm
Can't we trade Manning for Assange or something???
Quote:
..... The British embassy in Washington said it had not received any requests to visit Manning in jail.

Usually the UK government would not intervene in cases of dual nationality where the person is held in the other country, but there are exceptions on humanitarian grounds, including claims of inhumane treatment.

Amnesty International has today called on the UK government to intervene on Manning's behalf and ....
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 01:26 pm
Re Assange:

"Whatever the outcome [on Friday], either side can appeal. There's no end in sight" -- Al Jazeera live stream
0 Replies
 
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Feb, 2011 01:41 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

We were told last night that Bradley Manning has been held in solitary confinement for almost 300 days.

What's going on with that. The kid is no traitor. A fool maybe. A joker even. A complete idiot possibly.

You want Manning? His Welsh mother wants him back. Can we have Assange instead?
 

Related Topics

 
Copyright © 2025 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.56 seconds on 01/16/2025 at 03:01:04