57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 09:27 am
Deportation proceedings began today.

Live blog updates available here http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/blog/2011/feb/07/assange-extradition-hearing
Irishk
 
  3  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 11:40 am
Wondering whatever happened to Assange's threat to out all those offshore bank account holders. That one coulda been...interesting.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 12:31 pm
@Irishk,
He's either collected his extortion payoff, or is still in negotiations.

His legal fees must be incredible.
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 01:00 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
The hallmark of a Finn post; lies, innuendo, diversion, all cleverly disguised with massive doses of stupidity.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 01:02 pm
@JPB,
Assange's concerns about U.S. political pressure behind Sweden's actions may be "fanciful."

(When the State Department warned Assange that he was endangering lives by releasing the cables, Assange responded that the State Department was being "fanciful.")
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 01:33 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
(When the State Department warned Assange that he was endangering lives by releasing the cables, Assange responded that the State Department was being "fanciful.")


And they were being fanciful, at the least; maybe a more accurate description would be mendacious, vomiting perfidy, as is their wont, Wandeljw. But you know this and still you crank out the propaganda.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 01:47 pm
This is why WikiLeaks is absolutely essential. To argue against it to to allow and defend that criminal actions, criminal both in a national and international sense, are what the world needs, what we should aspire to.

The arguments go, "well we simply can't trust {stick in the bad guy of the day}". The truth is, the record shows, that we simply can't trust any of the major powers, the US, the UK, France, Russia, ... . Theirs is a history of brutality, enormous brutality, used solely to steal the wealth from those less fortunate.

Sane, rational normal people condemn such actions when it's common criminals doing that. When it's the leader of their own country, it's a whole nother ballgame. WHY? Why does common sense and rationality go out the window?

Even this charade, the Chilcot Inquiry, which is going on in Britain is light years ahead of the USA.

Quote:

If Chilcot is our finest inquisitor, thank heavens for WikiLeaks
Tony Blair's evasions at the Chilcot inquiry continue to be an insult to the British public

A couple of weeks ago, the Canadian television presenter Richard Gizbert asked a panel at the Frontline Club in London what effect WikiLeaks' disclosure of American cables might have had during the run-up to the Iraq war. Would the kind of revelations we saw last year have made it impossible for Tony Blair and George Bush to invade Iraq on the basis of claims about weapons of mass destruction?

Obviously, publication would have made deceit and obfuscation vastly more difficult, because the more the public is made aware of what governments know and don't know, the more difficult it is for politicians to follow messianic crusades of their own. That is one of the crucial arguments in favour of publishing such material. Contrast the clear shafts of light that spread from publication of the cables with the interminable ramblings of John Chilcot's committee of pensionable British worthies and you find yourself regretting that the manoeuvrings of Blair and Bush were not exposed to similar scrutiny in 2002 and 2003. Is it any wonder that the internet generation largely supports the dumping of raw information by whistleblowers on the web when they see figures from the 20th-century British establishment like Chilcot forlornly apply to make public two letters from Blair to Bush, only to be refused on the grounds that prime ministers and presidents have a right to keep their correspondence private?

The request was passed by the cabinet secretary Gus O'Donnell to Tony Blair, who naturally declined to give his consent, the same reaction no doubt as Richard Nixon would have given if he had been asked, rather than forced, to allow the Watergate tapes to be played in public. But the moral possession of these letters does not lie with Blair, the state or even the historians of the future, but to the British people of today – the public who paid for his Iraq adventure in money and lives. The confidences between statesmen are as nothing compared with the public's right to know what went on in the lead-up to war.

When Blair won the battle of the letters, he was halfway home and that was before he even set foot in the inquiry last week. Plenty was revealed, but he never looked discomfited during his appearance and any admission of failure only served the self-portrait of an agonised leader who was merely trying to do right by his country. He has an impressive armoury of tricks designed to draw sympathy from his audience or at least to stall his interrogators – the dramatic hesitation as he recalls those difficult months, the empty concessions to the views of opponents, the frequent use of "in respect of", "look" and "I have to say", all of which serve to evoke a reasonableness which is wholly bogus.

When he was being ever-so-gently pressed on the question of why the attorney general Lord Goldsmith was not involved in discussions in the months between October 2002 and January 2003, he came out with a contorted explanation about keeping the Americans in ignorance of the doubt of his cabinet and the government's chief legal officer. "I had to hold that line – very uncomfortably by the way," he said with a familiar dash of self pity. It is clear there was never any question in his mind that he wanted to take the country to war; what he in fact admitted in this exchange was the subtlety – some would say cunning – with which he manipulated the public and political discourses towards that end. When asked why he had ignored Goldsmith's unambiguous advice that UN resolution 1441 was not enough to go to war in a speech to the House of Commons, he made the truly baffling distinction between a political and a legal speech, as though the first somehow gave him licence to say anything he wanted, whereas a legally informed statement would be more constrained.

I have no proof, but suspect that Blair was not conscious of the difference at the time. He can be remarkably hazy about the law and once stated in these pages that the Human Rights Act does allow the courts to strike down the act of our "sovereign parliament", which it most certainly does not.

His passing admissions underline this intellectual laxity, though you would not know it from the reaction of the five members of the inquiry. As an aside, Blair revealed that only 14 of 28 meetings with key figures to discuss the possibility of war were actually minuted; no record exists of who was there or what was said at half of these meetings.

Chilcot's purpose is to write a report, not create a courtroom drama for television. The questioning is respectful, sometimes over-elaborate but rarely forensic, which is a pity because on these issues the public does need to see political leaders visibly held to account, even if that means impolitely forcing them to answer difficult questions. According to a US diplomatic cable published by WikiLeaks in December, the British government promised to protect American interests during the inquiry, which may account for the suppression of the Bush correspondence. One cannot help feeling that the entire process is far too gentlemanly and that Blair will now return unscathed to his life as a quasi-financial, quasi-political, quasi-religious entrepreneur, not unlike the character described in Robert Harris's novel The Ghost.

A report will eventually be extruded by the Chilcot committee, by which time most people will have long since given up caring about Iraq. It will no doubt make sensible mandarin points about the law, proper procedures and good government, but as with the other inquiries into Iraq, the British public has been deprived of proper satisfaction. We don't need a show trial, just a sense that penitence of a genuine sort or an admission of guilt has been wrung out of some of the Chilcot's witnesses, especially Tony Blair.

But maybe this is not our way. There are already important lessons to be learned about our recent history and the dictatorial way Blair ran the government at the height of his power – how easily checks on him were bypassed, opposition thwarted, intelligence skewed, lawyers and obstructive colleagues sidelined, all in the mortifying attempt to earn the favour of the US and pursue a policy of "liberal intervention" that was, by the way, in part developed by Chilcot committee member Sir Lawrence Freedman.

The thing is that we don't have to wait for the report to understand what happened; it has been plain for the last six or seven years. But imagine how things would be if we had known then what we know now. Real-time disclosure makes deception very hard.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/jan/23/tony-blair-chilcot-inquiry-wikileaks




0 Replies
 
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 04:49 pm
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

Deportation proceedings began today.

Extradition is deportation under British law? Does that law allow extradition for the purpose of questioning? Isn't Assange entitled to legal services by Australian authorities? Then there's Manning and potential requests for his rendition to the British embassy in DC. His counsel claims that Oklahoma-born Manning is entitled to British citizenship because his mom was a Brit and under British law he has the right to a UK passport and representation by UK consular authorities.

And then somebody claims the State Dept is fanciful?

This is a 3-ring circus. The lawyers are making it up as they go.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 04:54 pm
@electronicmail,
oops, sorry. You're right. Wrong word there. It's extradition, not deportation. Thanks for pointing that out.
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 04:58 pm
@JPB,
Thanks and one more thing, are extradition proceedings underway or only hearings?
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 05:06 pm
@electronicmail,
The outcome will determine whether or not Assange is extradited. Take your pick.
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 06:14 pm
A photograph of Mr Assange is prominent on the front page of the Financial Times today.

What's that all about?
0 Replies
 
Butrflynet
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 06:47 pm
What are your thoughts on this new turn of events from the United States?

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/02/air-force-legal-office-prosecuted-reading-wikileaks/

Quote:
Air Force legal office: All of our members’ families can be prosecuted for reading WikiLeaks

By Stephen C. Webster
Monday, February 7th, 2011 -- 1:53 pm

Almost anyone in the United States, and especially soldiers or the families of US Air Force members, could be under the threat of prosecution by the military, according to a recent "guidance" document issued by the Air Force Materiel Command (AFMC) public affairs office.

The advisory took on new significance Monday as Julian Assange, founder of the secrets peddling website, was in a British court to argue against his extradition to Sweden, where he was wanted for questioning in relation to allegations of sexual assault and impropriety.

"Classified information does not automatically become declassified as a result of unauthorized disclosure, and accessing the WikiLeaks site would introduce potentially classified information on unclassified networks," the Air Force Material Command explained, noting policy well-documented since the start of WikiLeaks' release of US diplomatic cables.

"Guidance issued by the Office of the Secretary of the Air Force on Aug. 9, 2010, makes clear that Air Force personnel should not access the WikiLeaks website to view or download the publicized classified information."

But, they add:

Within AFMC, and across the Air Force, the WikiLeaks site has been blocked to protect the network. Other sites discovered to be posting the leaked information have also been blocked.

According to AFMC's legal office, Air Force members -- military or civilian -- may not legally access WikiLeaks at home on their personal, non-governmental computers, either.

[...]

Also according to the legal office, "if a family member of an Air Force employee accesses WikiLeaks on a home computer, the family member may be subject to prosecution for espionage under U.S. Code Title 18 Section 793. The Air Force member would have an obligation to safeguard the information under the general guidance to safeguard classified information."

It was unclear whether RawStory.com, or other websites which have carried information related to WikiLeaks' US State Dept. documents, were currently being blocked on military networks.

The Air Force legal office decision could pave the way for prosecutors in the US to file espionage charges against Assange. The WikiLeaks founder's attorney has argued that if he is extradited to Sweden he'll be sent to the US where he may end up in Guantanamo Bay or even dead by assassination or capital punishment.

It remained unclear whether the US could prosecute WikiLeaks for doing essentially what other mainstream news publications do on a regular basis. In fact, newspapers like The Guardian and The New York Times published almost as many of the US diplomatic documents as WikiLeaks, so an argument could be made that if one is prosecuted others may be too.

That argument was not lost on New York Times Executive Editor Bill Keller, who said during a recent Colombia University panel that he didn't believe Assange deserved to be prosecuted.

“It’s very hard to conceive of a prosecution of Julian Assange that wouldn’t stretch the law in a way that would be applicable to us,” he said. “Whatever one thinks of Julian Assange, certainly American journalists, and other journalists, should feel a sense of alarm at any legal action that tends to punish Assange for doing essentially what journalists do. That is to say, any use of the law to criminalize the publication of secrets.”

No charges have been filed against any members of the military of their families, with the exception of Pvt. Bradley Manning, who was charged with delivering massive caches of documents to WikiLeaks. There was some speculation weeks ago that the US may try to accuse Assange of coaxing Manning into the intelligence leak, but he has denied even hearing Manning's name until after it became a news item.
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 06:52 pm
That "Surprise Sex" they are charging him with, is that like you are so old you are surprised you can still do it ?
JTT
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 06:57 pm
@Butrflynet,
This isn't a new turn of events at all, BFN. The US has a long history of bending the law to suit its purposes. It's typical banana republic bluster.

The Pentagon Papers are still top secret despite their having been in the public domain for what is it, 40 years?
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  2  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 07:09 pm
@Butrflynet,
This was discussed by Wandel and F-art in the first few pages of the thread. I believe that all federal employees were told not to access the site. Their (and my) discussion has been about the concept of wikileaks or publication of media articles about certain cables. I've intentionally not accessed the site either.
ossobuco
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 07:45 pm
@Butrflynet,
My immediate thought is, you're kidding..



Hoover lives.
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 10:23 pm
@Ionus,
Ionus wrote:

That "Surprise Sex" they are charging him with, is that like you are so old you are surprised you can still do it ?

Stop asking or become
Quote:
subject to prosecution for espionage under U.S. Code Title 18 Section 793


Idea Question Arrow Exclamation Drunk
0 Replies
 
electronicmail
 
  1  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 10:28 pm
@JPB,
Does that mean that anyone who read the WikiLeaks on the New York Times or the Guardian is also subject to prosecution? That's getting to be an awful lot of us.

I didn't read the WikiLeaks site but I read those 2 papers online. Now what?
hawkeye10
 
  0  
Reply Mon 7 Feb, 2011 10:34 pm
@ossobuco,
Quote:
My immediate thought is, you're kidding..

Why would you be surprised? We have had vigorous evidence of our governments willingness to criminalize normal everyday human behaviour presented in the rape thread. Once the government is allowed this oppression it will continue to attempt to expand its stranglehold over activities of the individual until such time as the masses rebell, throwing off the chains that we have been fitted with.
0 Replies
 
 

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