WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

@Finn dAbuzz,

Just saw this, this morning: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/14/world/14manning.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

It looks like the harsh report I read a few weeks ago, wherever I read it, was considerably off - which is relieving to me; this link above does talk about a lot of harsh reports. Assuming (as I do now) that he has been treated at this level all along, the motivation for the harsh reports is suspect.

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@ossobuco,

Thank you for the link, osso. People who look at Manning as a hero may believe that any level of imprisonment is harsh. Moreover, characterizing the conditions as harsh supports Assange's claim that the U.S. is trying to "break" Manning to force him to implicate Assange.

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

You're welcome.
That article I first read wasn't describing these conditions as harsh.. it was describing different, worse, conditions as harsh.

It is my habit to save interesting articles on my desktop for a day, or less than a day, and then I will either save them to a file or clear them. This allows me to have a link to grab if I want to use it at a2k, but usually only for a short time as I mostly don't save the links to files, hardly any of those in politics. Often I can remember where I read stuff as I read the same rather mainstream news sources (Wapo, NYT, LAT, SFChron, BBC, Guardian, Slate, Huffpo) and can usually picture the source in my mind even if I've dumped the link - but I also read google news, and that might have lead me to some other source (Reuters, tv stations incl Fox, CS Monitor, whatever - maybe M. Jones or Nation).

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@ossobuco,

The motivation to emphasize or exaggerate the harshness of his incarceration is to cast him in the role of hero/martyr/victim.

We can hardly rely on Julian Assange of Daniel Ellsberg to decribe it with accuracy or objectivity.

I love this quote

Quote:

Mr. House said of his friend that he had “noticed a remarkable decline in his psychological state and his physical well-being.” He said that Private Manning appeared “very weak from a lack of exercise” and that “psychologically, he has difficulty keeping up with some conversational topics.”

He gets the opportunity for 7 hours of sleep every night.

He has three meals every day

He has an hour of exercise time every day (How many people do you know who exercise for an hour every day?)

He can speak to guards and other prisoners, read, watch TV and meet visitors.

Again, I would not like to be in his shoes, but then I'm not guilty of the crimes with which he has been accused. I can imagine that he is depressed and it certainly appears he suffered from depression prior to the leaks, but the conditions he endures are not torture nor even intended to break him.

His defense has asked for the delay in his trial.

Mr. House, by the way, is researcher at M.I.T. I don't know when they became friends, but considering manning's back ground, would you be surprised if it was after he was incarcerated?

He is on suicide watch based on doctors' recommendations.

Read Mr. House's quote again - if this is true and Manning can't sleep, and won't eat or exercise, suicide seems to be a real concern.

Imagine the outrage if Manning killed himself and the military did not have him on suicide watch?

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

We can hardly rely on Julian Assange of Daniel Ellsberg to decribe it with accuracy or objectivity.

And yet you sling tons of bullshit here daily, Finn, defending the US government who absolutely isn't to be trusted, a government that supplies a steady dose of lies to its citizenry, who commits mass murder, who has, more than once done biological tests on its own.

Daniel Ellsberg is a tremendous hero and anyone who would jeopardize their career, their whole life to expose the crimes of his government, your government, you slimeball, merits a great deal of trust.

You, as I've often mentioned, but it needs it again, a guy who always, that's, ALWAYS attempts to hide and explain away the evil that has been and is in US foreign policy, deserve, as Cy also recently mentioned, no credence whatsoever.

If the American government wasn't involved in such immoral and evil behavior, there wouldn't have to be any Private Mannings.

This reminds me of the helicopter pilot and crew who threatened to fire upon those US troops slaughtering innocent men women and children. You want to know the depth of the evil, the depravity that is you and people like you.

Quote:

Three U.S. servicemen who made an effort to halt the massacre and protect the wounded were denounced by U.S. Congressmen, received hate mail and death threats and found mutilated animals on their doorsteps.[5] Only 30 years after the event were their efforts honored.[6]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

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Tunisia's President Flees After Riots Fanned by WikiLeaks
Full story

Quote:

Tunisia's president has stepped down, fleeing the country he ruled for 23 years after a citizens' revolt fanned by WikiLeaks disclosures about his regime's corruption and economic mismanagement.

Prime Minister Mohammed Ghannouchi appeared on state-run television this evening and announced he was assuming presidential powers, Bloomberg reported. Citing Al-Arabiya, Bloomberg reported that President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali had fled the country for Malta.

The surprise announcement came after thousands of protesters swarmed the streets of the capital Tunis and called on Ben Ali to quit. Riot police reportedly fired tear gas and live rounds at the rally as it approached the Interior Ministry headquarters, a symbol of his repressive regime, according to the U.K.'s Guardian newspaper.

1 Reply

Opinion Piece:
Secrecy is the problem, not leakers
Full story

http://www.sofiaecho.com/shimg/zx500y290_1016332.jpg

Ukrainian activists cover their mouths with US flags during a rally in support of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange in front of the Swedish embassy to Ukraine in Kiev on December 22 2010.

Quote:

WikiLeaks is now at the centre of a global battle between media and those in power but what's new about what Julian Assange is doing? WikiLeaks is much more than just another journalistic scandal, it is a challenge to the way that power and news media operate in the Internet Age.

In some ways WikiLeaks is a traditional investigative news operation. It gets its information from a source and the journalists decide what they will publish. It needs a platform, an audience and revenue just like any other newsroom. It can also be sued, censored or attacked. But because it is trying to operate online outside of normal national jurisdictions it is harder to hold to account. It can use mirror sites and multiple servers to avoid physical restraint.

It also disseminates data on such a vast scale and directly to the public so it is posting a different threat to those in authority used to being able to influence if not control the media. It is independent and not run for profit and the people who work for it are ideologically motivated. This all makes it much harder to clamp down.

Oxford University Internet analyst John Naughton says that what WikiLeaks is really exposing is the extent to which the western democratic system has been hollowed out. It is not that what it publishes will endanger lives or make government impossible. It is that it forces power out into the open. That is why those in power are attacking it. WikiLeaks worries them because it protects its sources and gives the evidence directly and in great detail and scale to the citizen.

It is also a challenge to mainstream media. As Columbia University digital journalism expert Emily Bell argues, it forces journalists and news organisations to demonstrate to what extent they are now part of an establishment it is their duty to report. In other words, WikiLeaks exposes the degree to which normal journalism has lost its watchdog role.

1 Reply

@hingehead,

I seriously doubt that this was influenced by anything from Wikileaks. This predates any fanning. Silly article in terms of Wiki.

1 Reply

@realjohnboy,

The article I posted on the bottom of the previous page indicated a wikileak impact as well, rjb.

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@hingehead,

Quote:

Ukrainian activists cover their mouths with US flags during a rally in support of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange in front of the Swedish embassy to Ukraine in Kiev on December 22 2010.

Why US flags if they are in front of the Swedish embassy?

A
R
T

1 Reply

@failures art,

failures art wrote:

Quote:
Ukrainian activists cover their mouths with US flags during a rally in support of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange in front of the Swedish embassy to Ukraine in Kiev on December 22 2010.

Why US flags if they are in front of the Swedish embassy?

A
R
T

Because we're the ones trying to railroad him, far worse than Sweden. They're just our cat's paw in this matter.

Cycloptichorn

1 Reply

@Cycloptichorn,

My question remains. Why not go stand in front of the US embassy then?

I thought we had come to the point in discussing Assange that his actions as an individual were not the same as the issue of WikiLeaks. Sweden is interested in Assange for a non-Wikileak related investigation, so that's why this doesn't make sense to me.

Cat's paw or not, this kind of protest wouldn't be very compelling to the Swedes in the Swedish embassy in Ukraine.

A
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1 Reply

@failures art,

Quote:

Sweden is interested in Assange for a non-Wikileak related investigation

Oh, come on. We don't really find that to be at all credible, do we?

Cycloptichorn

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@Cycloptichorn,

Give Art a break, he's young. Creating effective subterfuge isn't the easiest thing in the world.

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@Cycloptichorn,

Cycloptichorn wrote:

Quote:
Sweden is interested in Assange for a non-Wikileak related investigation

Oh, come on. We don't really find that to be at all credible, do we?

Cycloptichorn

Do we really need to go in circles about this part again? Based on what should the accusations be taken any less seriously?

I think it's wrong to assume that the Swedish charges are apart of some sort of conspiracy to railroad Assange. That's not fair to the women involved. Let that case be its own issue. Guilty or innocent, it should not be a part of the WikiLeaks issue.

So what reason do you believe that the women's claims were not credible? It seems that the reasons for finding them not credible is based on conspiracy theory and not the actual accusation's details.

A
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@failures art,

Quote:

So what reason do you believe that the women's claims were not credible? It seems that the reasons for finding them not credible is based on conspiracy theory and not the actual accusation's details.

Ground control to Space Cadet Art! Come in Space Cadet Art.

1 Reply

@JTT,

So do you believe the women were lying? If so, what is their motive?

A
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1 Reply

@failures art,

To make a man suffer. To draw attention to themselves as sexy enough to attract a "celebrity". To make money. To facilitate continually thinking about sex.

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@spendius,

A brilliant conspiracy, that is.
R
T

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@failures art,

Really?

- The timing
- The overall weakness of the charges - in America he would have been charged with nothing at all
- The fact that at least one of the women apparently wants nothing to do with the prosecution
- The fact that this is a favorite way for governments to smear politically inconvenient people

Throughout history there have been many examples of nefarious activity on the part of various governments which are derided at the time as 'conspiracy theories.' The only question one has to ask themselves is whether or not these governments would take such an action. I totally believe that they would.

Sexual allegations are notoriously hard to either prove or disprove and serve as a vehicle to discredit people in the minds of the weak and lazy. It's the same thing that was done to Ellsberg and I don't find anything about the case to be compelling at all. There's very little actual evidence to convict him of anything - and they know it. One of the reasons that such trials are difficult to prosecute is that you generally can't get convictions based on simply the testimony of one person against another.

I don't know if he's guilty of, well, doing whatever with these women or not; and I really don't care, because what they've described in the media sounds like a guy who is kind of a dick but hardly a rapist.

The timing is simply too incredible to believe. Hard-to-prove charges of molestation are leveled at an incredibly charged international rogue character, who is dangerous to powerful people in both Europe and America? How shocking! Next you'll tell me that the US would intentionally out one of their own spies for political reasons.

I think we have to admit the strong possibility that these charges are in fact politically motivated, because the countries involved have not only a history of doing such things but also motive and opportunity. Those are generally the criteria for accepting a theory's plausibility...

Cycloptichorn

2 Replies

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

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