57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Mon 10 Jan, 2011 03:05 pm
@ossobuco,
Finn would have posted that if he had seen it.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Mon 10 Jan, 2011 04:54 pm
@ossobuco,
ossobuco wrote:

I ran across an article in today's LA Times that is similar to the one I read weeks earlier about Manning's incarceration - they don't seem to jive with your linked article:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-manning-20110110,0,3558552.story


How so - the article I posted explained what he is allowed to do. Something you never see in any of the editorials or opinion pieces describing his incarceration as excessively harsh.

I'm not suggesting he's having a swell time, and I agree that his restrictions are harsh, but he's not being tortured or treated inhumanely.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jan, 2011 06:20 pm
If the procedures and facilities exist to treat the lad as described have they been used previously for others and, if so, were where we then?
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jan, 2011 08:03 pm
From today's press briefing by State Department spokesman P. J. Crowley:

Quote:
QUESTION: On Iceland, can you talk about the meeting between the U.S. Ambassador in Reykjavik and the foreign ministry in terms of the Justice Department trying to secure information about a parliamentarian’s Twitter account?

MR. CROWLEY: Well, we can report that Ambassador Luis Arreaga had a constructive conversation with the ministry of foreign affairs in Iceland and listened attentively to their concerns. We took the opportunity to underscore how seriously the U.S. Government takes the unauthorized disclosure of classified information and the harm it has caused. Our Ambassador assured the Government of Iceland that the Department of Justice investigation is being conducted in compliance with U.S. law and is subject to all of the rule of law and due process norms enshrined in the U.S. Constitution and applicable federal law.

QUESTION: Can you say that this woman is a suspect in terms of helping Julian Assange?

MR. CROWLEY: For all those kind of questions, I’ll defer to the Department of Justice.

QUESTION: Does the State Department believe that there is any justifiable grounds for the Government of Iceland to object to the disclosure of her Twitter messages in response to a Justice Department subpoena?

MR. CROWLEY: Well, again, all I can tell you is that our ambassador was called in. The Government of Iceland expressed its concerns. I’ll leave it to the Government of Iceland to describe those concerns if they have any. We are – and as we’ve indicated, the Department of Justice continues with its investigation.

QUESTION: Did they convey to you – I mean, they have concerns because you say that they expressed their concerns, so it’s not if they have any. I mean, clearly, they do have concerns, right?

MR. CROWLEY: I’ll leave it to Iceland to describe their concerns.

QUESTION: Okay. And whatever were their concerns, did they inform the ambassador of an intent to contest or to move to quash the subpoena?

MR. CROWLEY: Again, Arshad, I can’t answer that question without getting into the investigation, which I will just defer to the Department of Justice.

QUESTION: Well, that doesn’t get into the investigation. It’s just --

MR. CROWLEY: I mean, as to --

QUESTION: -- as to whether they told you, yeah, we’re going to, like, file a motion to quash this.

MR. CROWLEY: Again, as to any legal steps that the government might take or this individual might take, it is up to them.

QUESTION: When you say that the Ambassador listened attentively, did the ambassador offer a kind of rationale for why the subpoena was being sent or referred – did the Ambassador refer the government to the Department of Justice for further explanation, or was this the opportunity for the Ambassador to explain the U.S. --

MR. CROWLEY: I think he gave a general response as I outlined here.

QUESTION: Well, when you say general response, you just – you’re just saying general response of how the U.S. views the WikiLeaks affair and that there is some kind of investigation. But from what you’re saying it doesn’t seem as if the Ambassador offered a kind of explanation for why the subpoena was necessary.

MR. CROWLEY: Again, that’s a matter that – I mean, to – and some may recall – and again, it’s not clear to me the Justice Department actions took place in this country. And – but beyond that, I’ll defer to the Department of Justice.

QUESTION: So just to be clear, did – when the Ambassador went into this meeting and listened attentively, did the Ambassador just offer some general comments about WikiLeaks and say, “I refer you to the Department of Justice for any further explanation?”

MR. CROWLEY: I can’t – I don’t know.
High Seas
 
  1  
Reply Mon 10 Jan, 2011 08:40 pm
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:

From today's press briefing by State Department spokesman P. J. Crowley:

Quote:

..............................................................
MR. CROWLEY: Again, that’s a matter that – I mean, to – and some may recall – and again, it’s not clear to me the Justice Department actions took place in this country. And – but beyond that, I’ll defer to the Department of Justice.

QUESTION: So just to be clear, did – when the Ambassador went into this meeting and listened attentively, did the Ambassador just offer some general comments about WikiLeaks and say, “I refer you to the Department of Justice for any further explanation?”

MR. CROWLEY: I can’t – I don’t know.


Love your Mr Crowley, Wandel, I do! Is he a refugee from Saturday Night Live? Sounds like it - that's U.S. diplomacy at its highest level here Laughing
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  2  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 10:24 am
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

If the procedures and facilities exist to treat the lad as described have they been used previously for others and, if so, were where we then?


Ask the US military.

I am assuming the conditions of his incarceration are in accord with existing regulations. If they are not, they should be changed. He has a lawyer who has, I feel certain, investigated this issue.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 10:28 am
Quote:
US Embassy: Iceland Wikileaks Probe Legal
(Iceland Review Online, January 11, 2011)

US Ambassador to Iceland Luis E. Arreaga was informed about the parliamentary immunity of MP Birgitta Jónsdóttir at a meeting in the Icelandic Foreign Ministry with the ministry’s undersecretary Einar Gunnarsson and international law expert Tómas H. Heidar yesterday morning.

At the meeting Arreaga was also asked for information about what lies behind the US Ministry of Justice’s demand that social network Twitter release personal information on the Icelandic MP, Fréttabladid reports.

The US Embassy to Iceland maintains that the US authorities’ inquiries into the MPs online communication via Twitter are legal.

“We assured the Icelandic government that the investigation of the United States Department of Justice is in accordance with American law and follows all guidelines on court regulations and a fair trial affirmed in the United States Constitution and the appropriate federal law,” the embassy’s spokesperson Laura Gritz said in an announcement released after the meeting.

A press release from the ministry says that in addition to calling for information, Gunnarsson and Heidar expressed their concern that an Icelandic MP is the subject of a criminal investigation of this nature.

They explained that Jónsdóttir has parliamentary immunity in Iceland and that she cannot be separated from the Icelandic Althingi parliament in this manner.

They stressed that there should be no further disruption to her work as an MP, including her rights to travel and participate in international political discourse.

In the subpoena delivered to Twitter on Friday, information about five persons was requested, in addition to Jónsdóttir, Wikileaks editor Julian Assange, Bradley Manning, the solider who is believed to have leaked a host of documents from the US Foreign Service, and two hackers, one American and one Dutch.

Twitter informed the five individuals about the US authorities’ request. They have until after next weekend to fight the release of information.

Jónsdóttir traveled to Canada yesterday where she will speak at a conference on the freedom of information. She had originally planned to fly through the US but in light of recent events she decided to fly through London instead.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 12:49 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
She had originally planned to fly through the US but in light of recent events she decided to fly through London instead.


One has to wonder how many more will do the same.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 03:28 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
She had originally planned to fly through the US but in light of recent events she decided to fly through London instead.


One has to wonder how many more will do the same.


Since there were only a relative handful of foreign citizens identified in the subpoena, I expect the number who do the same will be rather small.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 03:43 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Since there were only a relative handful of foreign citizens identified in the subpoena, I expect the number who do the same will be rather small.


However, the terms of the "Twitter subpoena" could potentially cull data from hundreds of thousands of other users who have read the tweets of the named users.
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 05:11 pm
Quote:
Too much sharing?
(By Michael Hayden, Samuel Visner and William Courtney, Baltimore Sun OpEd, January 11, 2011)

The disclosure by WikiLeaks of thousands of U.S. diplomatic communications has sparked debate about a key response to the Sept. 11 attacks. Is it wise to share sensitive national security information more widely — including to upwards of a half-million military and civilian defense personnel — to help thwart future terrorism by better "connecting the dots" from fragmentary data? Or is wider sharing an unduly risky ditching of the proven security precept of "need to know?"

We believe wider sharing is wise — but only if aided by sound security practices and advanced technology to protect information. Vital information sharing need not be a victim of WikiLeaks.

The principle of "need to know" requires segmenting information according to sensitivity and topic. Sharing must strike a balance between protecting security and fostering collaboration across all levels of government and, often, the private sector.

This is more important than ever. Terrorism is a greater threat, and defending against it depends on access to a wider array of information than for traditional military threats. Cultural and religious behavior, travel data, financial flows, deceptive websites and remote sensing are among the information sources for actionable intelligence on terrorist plots.

Striking multiple balances is necessary to protect and share sensitive information. Tactical military field units have little need for diplomatic communications, but they do require real-time access to searchable data from multiple government agencies, such as to tell if someone at a road checkpoint is a person of interest. Sensitive information has long been shared among agencies based on "need to know" but without being dumped into vast, poorly monitored databases. Government data on American citizens merits strong privacy protection, but under proper authorities, information sharing with law enforcement makes sense — if this helps uncover foreign espionage or terrorist plans.

Balance is also required in security measures. Disabling thumb and DVD drives on computers averts some kinds of information theft, but on the battlefield it could harm operational effectiveness. Imposing administrative security requirements common to intelligence headquarters or national agencies, such as polygraph exams, on all personnel in military field units would prove unacceptably burdensome.

In striking better balances, we cannot forget the post-Sept. 11 reasons why sharing became a higher priority. Uncovering and foiling terrorist threats requires that many entities work together and share information — often our best weapon.

Thus, policy on information sharing and security should improve along three paths:

•Personnel security. If Army Private Bradley Manning — suspected of leaking the WikiLeaks documents — had psychological problems, as alleged, should he have had access to sensitive information? When indications merit, personnel should undergo psychological testing to assess vulnerabilities that might raise security risks. Personnel clearances ought to be based on the type of information to which a person has access, not — as now — according to which agency employs someone.

•Security procedures. Although some "insider threats" arise from malicious intent, nearly all are abetted by sloppy execution of routine security procedures or perceptions that they are bothersome or unimportant. National security organizations should elevate security as a management priority, enforce rules more consistently and offer better training.

•Cyber tools. Cybersecurity techniques can detect much anomalous behavior, such as downloading, copying or printing numerous documents, seeking to access information in unusual ways or information not normally accessed, and transferring sensitive information to others. That such tools were not employed on the battlefield in Afghanistan is understandable but in retrospect imprudent.

More advanced cyber tools are being developed, such as to sift through huge volumes of seemingly disparate data and correlate findings. This need is a key lesson from the 2009 Christmas Day bombing attempt. New tools must address potential threats from mobile devices and social media and better detect and resolve suspicious exfiltrations. Improving analytic tools to better understand global information environments and characterize the behavior of systems remains a pressing challenge.

Reacting to the WikiLeaks disclosures by clamping down on information-sharing would risk failing to detect hard-to-predict or increasingly diverse threats. More prudent is to employ sound security practices and advanced technology while leveraging the advantages of information sharing and collaboration. National security and technology professionals have worked hard to gain these advantages, and they ought not to be hastily discarded.
JTT
 
  0  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 05:37 pm
@wandeljw,
Quote:
to help thwart future terrorism


Right off the bat, they turn on the propaganda hoses, full force, Wandel. But that's those journalists, not you, right?

You can't really say that terrorism was invented by the USA but they certainly have picked up the banner and run with it over the last couple of centuries.

Terrorism is being expanded worldwide, largely, and largely is the operative word, by the USA.

+++++++++
Wanton killing of innocent civilians is terrorism, not a war against terrorism.

NOAM CHOMSKY, 9-11
++++++++++

It's not right to respond to terrorism by terrorizing other people. And furthermore, it's not going to help. Then you might say, "Yes, it's terrorizing people, but it's worth doing because it will end terrorism." But how much common sense does it take to know that you cannot end terrorism by indiscriminately dropping bombs?

HOWARD ZINN, Terrorism and War

+++++++++++++++++++++

Quote:
International Terrorism: Image and Reality
Noam Chomsky
In Alexander George (ed.), Western State Terrorism, Routledge, December, 1991

There are two ways to approach the study of terrorism. One may adopt a literal approach, taking the topic seriously, or a propagandistic approach, construing the concept of terrorism as a weapon to be exploited in the service of some system of power. In each case it is clear how to proceed. Pursuing the literal approach, we begin by determining what constitutes terrorism. We then seek instances of the phenomenon -- concentrating on the major examples, if we are serious -- and try to determine causes and remedies. The propagandistic approach dictates a different course. We begin with the thesis that terrorism is the responsibility of some officially designated enemy. We then designate terrorist acts as "terrorist" just in the cases where they can be attributed (whether plausibly or not) to the required source; otherwise they are to be ignored, suppressed, or termed "retaliation" or "self-defence."


It comes as no surprise that the propagandistic approach is adopted by governments generally, and by their instruments in totalitarian states. More interesting is the fact that the same is largely true of the media and scholarship in the Western industrial democracies, as has been documented in extensive detail.1 "We must recognize," Michael Stohl observes, "that by convention -- and it must be emphasized only by convention -- great power use and the threat of the use of force is normally described as coercive diplomacy and not as a form of terrorism," though it commonly involves "the threat and often the use of violence for what would be described as terroristic purposes were it not great powers who were pursuing the very same tactic."2 Only one qualification must be added: the term "great powers" must be restricted to favored states; in the Western conventions under discussion, the Soviet Union is granted no such rhetorical license, and indeed can be charged and convicted on the flimsiest of evidence.

http://www.chomsky.info/articles/199112--02.htm



0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 05:50 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
It could, but is every one who uses twitter and facebook and is not a US citizen going to avoid flying into a US city?
0 Replies
 
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 06:21 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Quote:
Since there were only a relative handful of foreign citizens identified in the subpoena, I expect the number who do the same will be rather small.


Maybe that's true and maybe it isn't.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 06:23 pm
@spendius,
spendius wrote:

Quote:
Since there were only a relative handful of foreign citizens identified in the subpoena, I expect the number who do the same will be rather small.


Maybe that's true and maybe it isn't.


How profound!

I'll have to remember that one.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 06:25 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
You ought to do. I only reminded you in case you had forgotten such a banality as your post suggested you had.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 11 Jan, 2011 06:31 pm
@spendius,
I almost always enjoy your posts and consider them quite clever, but this one was pretty weak.

To accuse banality from a base of "maybe this is true and maybe it is not'" is so very rich that I will be disappointed if you don't agree.
spendius
 
  1  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 08:29 am
@Finn dAbuzz,
What I meant Finn was that the number of people named in the subpoena, which I admit is small and unlikely to have much effect on the racked gearing of the profit margins involved in the US tourist industry, might not be a reliable guide in gauging the number who are influenced by the statements being made in respect of the problem being discussed.

We regularly see ads on our screens tempting us to visit America so that money may be extracted from us for US use. Those who are tempted, which doesn't include me, may well resist the temptation if they have posted pro-Assange sentiments on various internet sites. I imagine that arriving at a US port of entry as a "suspected person" is quite tiresome and has the potential to ruin any holiday before it begins.

Judging from the things I have read, here and elsewhere, the number of such people might be quite large.

So, basically, what I was trying to say was that the various Justice bureaucracies in their diligence are giving the US tourist industry a headache. Which is fair enough. I am in favour of our tourist industry here being given a headache but I am aware that many others are not.

The bangs for bucks that the advertisers of US holidays are getting is reduced by these announcements. Which is unAmerican really seeing as how business oriented the nation is said to be. It's a right-winger's point of view I know.

It raises the central issue of whether the saving of lives is more important than money making given the obvious facts that saving lives is very easy to do, especially with other people's money, and money making is very difficult. So it goes to the root of your basic objection to the administration.

Or so it seems to me.

So I was surprised that you were a party to downplaying the effects of the announcements about our records being available to US investigators, all well paid I presume, when I expected you to use them to castigate your left-leaning government. Assuming it is left leaning of course which I am not persauded it is. Possibly you had not thought it through.

We have experienced more than one serious decline in American tourists visiting the UK as a result of stories on Media.

Left-wing, bureaucratic jobsworths, under the guise of saving lives, which they don't actually give a shite about, are making money heaping more difficult and it is money that saves lives.

To tell you the truth Finn I was merely trying to give you a few ideas to take to any political gatherings you might attend. I think the right needs to learn from the left that it pays to be loyal to each other. Individuals all having ideas of their own are easily picked off. To get power they then have to wait until the left screws everything up and the electorate have nowhere else to turn.

But they are only ideas. Rhetorical springboards. They are not serious politics. Serious politics is how we got from what Flaubert depicted in Salammbo in an advanced civilisation to Peyton Place or even Twin Peaks in a mere 2,500 years which any Darwinian will tell you is a mere blink of the eye in what the Great Guru called the "unimaginable vistas of time". (Or somesuch).

The evolutionists all assume that the Big Bang was when they were conceived. I was an Easter conception. I don't know what conjunctions of the planets were in operation at the time but whatever they were they coincided with warm weather returning and it's concommittant effects. An astrologer who has the last 70 year's weather patterns in his head only need ask a person their age and date of birth and he has a scientific guide to the conditions under which gestation and infancy took place. He might have economic patterns in his head as well. And he can tell the person's class and education from the speech and dress of the person: and the size of his fees!

Looked at on the balance of probabilities. With due allowance being made for the necessity to flatter the fee-payer.





JTT
 
  0  
Reply Wed 12 Jan, 2011 01:33 pm
@spendius,
With such big words, Spendi, it would have been courteous to mail Finn a dictionary. Maybe he can get someone at a Tea Bagger meeting to help him.
0 Replies
 
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 14 Jan, 2011 09:38 am
Re the riots in Tunisia

Quote:
The riots began after an educated but jobless 26-year-old committed suicide when police confiscated the fruits and vegetables he was selling without a permit.

The official death toll in the riots is 23, but opposition leaders put the figure at three times that, and medical workers on Friday reported another 13 new deaths and over 50 injuries from late Thursday alone.

U.S. diplomatic cables released by WikiLeaks have described the corruption in Tunisia, and social networks like Facebook have helped spread the comments. Many ordinary Tunisians who have complained of corruption for years felt vindicated to see the U.S. cables. Source
0 Replies
 
 

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