WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

How does one make enemies by telling the truth?

Like Jesus did.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

What ever happened to "freedom of speech" in our country? "Twitter" under court demand?

There may be a constitutional argument to be made against these subpoenas but it doesn't fall under "freedom of speech."

The freedom promised by the constitution is from government prosecution based on the content of your speech. It is not from the the government obtaining copies of your speech or information concerning the mode selected to present your speech.

Unless the government intends to bring charges against any of these people because of the content of their twitter or facebook posts, the issue is privacy, not freedom of speech.

Twitter seems to have taken the right approach to these subpoenas, but even they are not attempting to quash them, and will comply if the persons involved don't attempt legal action to prevent them from doing so.

It's quite possible that Twitter's response was not appreciated by federal investigators, but if they didn't want Twitter to alert the subjects they should have asked the Court to include that in the order.

If someone was actually involved in the release of classified information to WikiLeaks then they are rightly subject to investigation and possibly prosecution. They may have taken such actions for all sorts of reasons they perceive as noble, but it would have been extremely foolish to do so without considering the possible consequences, and if they have left a trail of crumbs on Twitter and Facebook that leads federal prosecutors to their door, then how dumb are they? They certainly didn't read the privacy statements of either forum.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn dAbuzz wrote:

... and if they have left a trail of crumbs on Twitter and Facebook that leads federal prosecutors to their door, then how dumb are they?

Which will be - taken literally - not so easy: most are foreigners and live in a foreign country.
I have some doubts that all countries will allow US-federal prosecutors to interview them, especially, when at least one has additionally parliamentary immunity in her country.

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Finn dAbuzz wrote:

Unless the government intends to bring charges against any of these people because of the content of their twitter or facebook posts, the issue is privacy, not freedom of speech.

Ironic that they will be invoking privacy rights.

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@Walter Hinteler,

That may be and so its arrogance as well as foolishness.

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@wandeljw,

wandeljw wrote:

Finn dAbuzz wrote:
Unless the government intends to bring charges against any of these people because of the content of their twitter or facebook posts, the issue is privacy, not freedom of speech.

Ironic that they will be invoking privacy rights.

Very

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@wandeljw,

It's not ironic, but comical. Privacy rights? LOL

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@cicerone imposter,

"and, my defense your honor is the USA has no rights to uncover the secrets of my personal life while I am exposing its most personal internal secrets." Shocked

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Thanks for that info - that is better than what I read describing his incarceration several weeks ago now. No link, or memory of where I read it.

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@BillW,

...on Facebook and all other public forums on the internet.

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@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

It's not ironic, but comical. Privacy rights? LOL

I'm not sure why you find privacy rights comical.

Roe v Wade (which I assume is one of your favorite Supreme Court decisions) is based primarily on the Court finding a right to privacy under the due process clause of the 14th amendment.

That resulted in a fairly dramatic change in America which I don't think anyone on either side of the argument finds laughable.

There are both common law and statutory rights to privacy, and fairly strict regulations concerning how corporations may use certain information (e.g. health records) that is deemed personally private.

Unfortunately the laws and/or their enforcement against hacking computers and stealing personal information don't seem to be up to the task.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Finn, You often misinterpret what is written, because you're always trying too hard to find an argument.

When anybody posts on a public forum on the world wide web such as Facebook, it's no longer private. Comprende?

Demanding privacy after posting on these forums is comical.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

I'm not sure why you find privacy rights comical.

Strawman, obviously <sigh> I expect better of you Finn.

There was even a question mark after "privacy rights" and these were the only words in the sentence. It was for you to reach a conclusion , not a statement of belief. God, why do I have to explain these things to a bunch of .............?

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@cicerone imposter,

The pot calls the kettle black.

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Quote:

US Ambassador to Iceland Called in Due to Wikileaks
(Iceland Review Online, January 10, 2011)

Icelandic Minister for Foreign Affairs Össur Skarphédinsson has called US Ambassador to Iceland Luis E. Arreaga to a meeting at the Foreign Ministry because of the demand of American authorities to be granted access to information on the online communication of Icelandic MP Birgitta Jónsdóttir, especially through the social network Twitter.

Skarphédinsson said he will probably not attend the meeting himself but that the ministry’s undersecretary will discuss the matter with Arreaga, Morgunbladid reports.

The minister added that Jónsdóttir has been invited to meet with the undersecretary and other employees of the ministry to explain her situation and potential risk that might be involved in her travels.

“I had a meeting on this matter in the ministry yesterday with the undersecretary and our international law specialist to, among other items, look into the MP’s situation,” Skarphédinsson said.

“We discussed, of course, in what way we would present our viewpoints but also how we can guarantee what I’d like to call her freedom of travel as a minister of parliament. She must be able to travel to the US without being harassed,” the minister explained.

Even though Jónsdóttir is clear about the seriousness of the matter, Skarphédinsson said it is still necessary to highlight it.

Speaker of Parliament Ásta Ragnheidur Jóhannesdóttir has requested a report on Jónsdóttir’s legal position in this case as an MP. She has, among other items, called for information from the International Parliamentarians Association.

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@Finn dAbuzz,

I ran across an article in today's LA Times that is similar to the one I read weeks earlier about Manning's incarceration - they don't seem to jive with your linked article:
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/editorials/la-ed-manning-20110110,0,3558552.story

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@ossobuco,

It's not as bad as Oscar Wilde was treated but it comes close.

But there are a lot of careers and self promotions resting upon the poor lad's shoulders. He's in a Kafkaesque maze I should imagine. And he was likely only goofing off. Having a jape.

The treatment is indefensible in 2011.

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@spendius,

I wonder what he was thinking... both as he made the copies with the intent to distribute them and then as he bragged about it online. It doesn't seem to me that if he was smart enough to pull of the heist of the century, as jw seems to think this is, that he'd be dumb enough to brag about it in a chat room.

I don't think he was doing it as a moral cause. I think he did it because he could, and then he bragged about it, and then he got busted. He's certainly going to be made an example of -- just as the conditions of Assange's incarceration were to set an example of what was in store for him, or anyone who works with him.

Still, though... regarding Manning... I'd really like to know what he was thinking at the time.

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@spendius,

The original article I read had worse to describe but I don't trust my memory - I think it was no window (or opening to see out) and no place to sit but the floor - and, as I said earlier, I haven't figured out where I saw that one. Perhaps that article initiated some changes, or, was somehow wrong. (I read a lot of newspapers online, but also read the odd google news article).

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@JPB,

JPB wrote:

It doesn't seem to me that if he was smart enough to pull of the heist of the century, as jw seems to think this is, that he'd be dumb enough to brag about it in a chat room.

The century is still young. Smile

Manning made Twitter comments to Adrian Lamo and followed up with instant messages to Lamo. Lamo was a legendary hacker at that time, but felt that Manning had gone to far. In a television interview, Lamo mentioned that Manning first contacted him on Twitter.

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WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

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