57
   

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

 
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 03:39 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Yes, they were kind enough to pay over $61 billion since 1951 when most economies were still struggling to make ends meet after WWII.


The Nazis pay us back!

Sorry the government we set up after the war in West Germany paid us back the remaining Nazis was too busy running and hiding in South American to pay us back.

Lord how silly can one get.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 06:20 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Sorry the government we set up after the war in West Germany paid us back the remaining Nazis was too busy running and hiding in South American to pay us back.


I.
1) there were three Western Zones,
2) the American Zone (aka South-Western Zone)
a) the Military Government of the American Zone ended on September 1, 1949
3) "upon the creation of the Federal Republic in May 1949, the military governors were replaced by civilian high commissioners, whose powers lay somewhere between those of a governor and those of an ambassador. When the Deutschlandvertrag became law, the occupation officially ended, the western occupation zones ceased to exist, and the high commissioners were replaced by normal ambassadors" (quoted from wikipedia, since I'm too lazy to re-write it).
4) these remaining control powers ended in 1991 with Two Plus Four Agreement ("Treaty on the Final Settlement With Respect to Germany").

II. All payments re the 2nd World War were done by the elected government of the Federal Republic of Germany with approval of the elected Federal Parliament.

III. There had never been a (civilian) federal or state government after WWII in (Western) Germany.
a) om different dates, and different in the zones, state parliaments were elected from 1946 onwards.
b) the first federal general election was on August 14, 1949
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 06:29 am
@Walter Hinteler,
And all that posting change what in my statement?
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 06:40 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Walter Hinteler wrote:

BillRM wrote:

Sorry the government we set up after the war in West Germany paid us back the remaining Nazis was too busy running and hiding in South American to pay us back.

[...]
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 06:43 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Yes the government or the descendent of the government we set up pay us back.

It was a valid statement no matter what the details of the evolution of the Western German state was after WW2.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 06:54 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

Yes the government or the descended of the government we set up pay us back.

It was a valid statement no matter what the details of the evolution of the German state was after WW2.


No. It isn't.

And you didn't pose anything about the 'German state' (to which one are you referring now here? Even in 1949 we'd got quite a few) but about the German government.

And the first German governmen (in "West Germany") was elected in 1949. Neither set up by the USA nor a descendent of the US-Zone Military Government.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:02 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
And the first German governmen (in "West Germany") was elected in 1949. Neither set up by the USA nor a descendent of the US-Zone Military Government.


BULLSHIT no West Germany Government was allowed to be set up without the permission and the input of the Western powers.

Maybe it was not formal and open permission but their constitution was approved by the Western powers just to start with.

But go on with your dream world.

Second note it was not until 1955 that the Western powers declared West Germany a fully independent nation.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=395285302255

Western Allies approve new Germany constitutionby Online Video Concepts, LLC on Wednesday, May 12, 2010 at 10:20am
On May 12, 1949, The western allied powers, the United Kingdom, United States, and France, approved the Grundgesetz (Basic Law) as the legal foundation for the Federal Republic of Germany (West Germany). The document served as the constitution of West Germany during the Cold War and remains the governing law for the unified Germany today. Learn more about the legal framework of the German government from Bundestag (Parliament of Germany).

Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:15 am
@BillRM,
Well, h*ll, I stated somewhere above that the last restrictions of the Allied Control Commission lasted until 1991.

You never posted anything (here) related to that and I never doubted such (posted about it here on A2K already in 2002 or 2003.)

But you were saying that you (= the USA) set up our government ...

Never mind. Nec scire fas est omnia.
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:22 am
@Walter Hinteler,
We as in the Western powers however mainly the US being we was by far the most powerful nation of the three did set up and control to some degree for decades the West German government.

All this details is beyond being silly as we did in fact set up that government who in the end pay us back.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:29 am
@BillRM,
So are we are (were) we vassals or a colony of the USA?

And did that finally end in 1991 or is it still the fact?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:41 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
So are we are (were) we vassals or a colony of the USA?

And did that finally end in 1991 or is it still the fact?


Look my silly friend after ww2 for some strange reason we did not trust the German people to rule themselves and we watch you like a Hawk for decades.

As you had behaved yourself and have not elected another madman as a leader the West had relaxed over the matter.

Now you are a trusted full member of the Western coalition of nations but that was not the case for decades.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 07:56 am
@BillRM,
At least, I've now an answer why we'd got conservative governments until 1969.

But wait: why didn't you manipulate the Brandt election, too?
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 08:21 am
@Walter Hinteler,
Quote:
At least, I've now an answer why we'd got conservative governments until 1969.

But wait: why didn't you manipulate the Brandt election, too?


I do not think that the West gave a **** about the details of how you govern yourself as long as you did not show signs of going toward the madness of the 1930s once more.

Oh as a guess having a military threat of the USSR on your borders by way of East Germany may have something to do with having conservative governments during most of the cold war years.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 08:36 am
@BillRM,
BillRM wrote:

I do not think that the West gave a **** about the details of how you govern yourself as long as you did not show signs of going toward the madness of the 1930s once more.


Well, but why did you write posts like those below today?


BillRM wrote:
BULLSHIT no West Germany Government was allowed to be set up without the permission and the input of the Western powers.


BillRM wrote:

Look my silly friend after ww2 for some strange reason we did not trust the German people to rule themselves and we watch you like a Hawk for decades.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 08:50 am
Quote:
WASHINGTON — The State Department is warning hundreds of human rights activists, foreign government officials and businesspeople identified in leaked diplomatic cables of potential threats to their safety and has moved a handful of them to safer locations, administration officials said Thursday.

The operation, which involves a team of 30 in Washington and embassies from Afghanistan to Zimbabwe, reflects the administration’s fear that the disclosure of cables obtained by the organization WikiLeaks has damaged American interests by exposing foreigners who supply valuable information to the United States.

Administration officials said they were not aware of anyone who has been attacked or imprisoned as a direct result of information in the 2,700 cables that have been made public to date by WikiLeaks, The New York Times and several other publications, many with some names removed. But they caution that many dissidents are under constant harassment from their governments, so it is difficult to be certain of the cause of actions against them. More
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 09:14 am
@JPB,
Too late for some: at least two lost already their jobs (in political parties) here in Germany.

(Since one of them is a more distant acquaintance: ´he lost his job due to breaking [German] labour law and his employment contract: giving away confidential information about his employer ... .)
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 09:22 am
@JPB,
The conclusion to the article posted by JPB mentions the mixed feelings that human rights activists have about WikiLeaks.

Quote:
For human rights activists in this country, disclosures by WikiLeaks, which was founded in 2006, have been a decidedly mixed development. Amnesty International gave WikiLeaks an award in 2009 for its role in revealing human rights violations in Kenya. Human Rights Watch wrote to President Obama last month to urge the administration not to pursue a prosecution of WikiLeaks or Mr. Assange.

But they are concerned that the cables could inflict their own kind of collateral damage, either by endangering diplomats’ sources or discouraging witnesses and victims of abuses from speaking to foreign supporters.

Sam Zarifi, director of Amnesty International’s operations in Asia, said the cables had provided valuable “empirical information” on abuses in several countries. “This is a new way to distribute information,” Mr. Zarifi said. “We just want to make sure it has the same safeguards as traditional journalism.”


The human rights organizations welcome the information but wish WikiLeaks had the "same safeguards as traditional journalism."

WikiLeaks needs the same set of standards and practices used by traditional journalism. Without that, WikiLeaks behaves like a drunk driver on a very busy street.
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 09:54 am
@wandeljw,
But have they released anything in this latest go-round that hasn't been released through regular media outlets first? I thought that was Assange's point of sharing everything with mainstream media and the coordinated release of documents. He's having them apply tradition journalistic methods.

Or do I have that wrong?
wandeljw
 
  2  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 10:15 am
@JPB,
JPB wrote:

But have they released anything in this latest go-round that hasn't been released through regular media outlets first? I thought that was Assange's point of sharing everything with mainstream media and the coordinated release of documents. He's having them apply tradition journalistic methods.

Or do I have that wrong?


Here is another paragraph from the article:

Quote:
WikiLeaks’s founder, Julian Assange, has said the group will continue to release additional cables on its own Web site as well, though to date it has moved cautiously and has reproduced the redactions made by newspapers publishing the cables.


Apparently they are publishing cables on their own website. It seems that they are later redacting names, if they see one of the newspapers doing that. This seems dangerous. WikiLeaks is relying on the news organizations to do the redacting.

The article also mentions, "...Taliban had said it would study the WikiLeaks documents to punish collaborators with the Americans."
JPB
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Jan, 2011 10:24 am
@wandeljw,
wandeljw wrote:


Quote:
WikiLeaks’s founder, Julian Assange, has said the group will continue to release additional cables on its own Web site as well, though to date it has moved cautiously and has reproduced the redactions made by newspapers publishing the cables.


Apparently they are publishing cables on their own website. It seems that they are later redacting names, if they see one of the newspapers doing that. This seems dangerous. WikiLeaks is relying on the news organizations to do the redacting.


I don't read it that way but I haven't visited their site to know otherwise. I think CJ was there early on... maybe she knows.

Quote:
The article also mentions, "...Taliban had said it would study the WikiLeaks documents to punish collaborators with the Americans."


Of course they will.
 

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