WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

@BillRM,

This is what you wrote:

Quote:

First tell me that the Nazis would had been so kind if the situation had been reverse.

Yes, they were kind enough to pay over $61 billion since 1951 when most economies were still struggling to make ends meet after WWII.

1 Reply

@High Seas,

On October 3, 2010, Germany paid - by the way - the last dollars of the $US 344 billion (US$ 2,825 billion in 2010) according to the London Agreement on German External Debts .... that were reparations from WWI (external debts incurred by German governments between 1919-1945).

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

Now if only we could corner all those other deadbeat nations and collect principal and interest from them too, we could cover the U.S. federal debt Smile

0 Replies

@BillRM,

BillRM wrote:

Where did I address if Germany pay back or did not pay back any post WW2 loans?

I don't think that any loans were mentioned here until now ...

1 Reply

@Walter Hinteler,

The loans were used in the reconstruction of Germany - which BillRM definitely mentioned. Any connection to WikiLeaks remains a dark mystery Very Happy

1 Reply

@wandeljw,

Quote:

I was wondering whether the arrest and imprisonment of Manning will discourage others from providing information to WikiLeaks. Will this fact alone severely decrease potential sources for WikiLeaks?

I'm really not sure. I think it's double-edged, govt employees may not risk it, unless the information is really important (ellsberg style). So in effect govt penalties and prosecution act as crap filters for the low-level stuff, so wikileaks may get less volume, but more quality - from US gov sources, but we shouldn't assume that's their chief source in any case.

Another risk for the US gov is the heightened publicity surround wikileaks which may a) put ideas in heads that had not considered the possibility before, and b) offers an easy path to fame for loners seeking notoriety.

1 Reply

@High Seas,

Quote:

Any connection to WikiLeaks remains a dark mystery

One might suggest that if all the secret diplomatic traffic of the period had been leaked the end result might have been different.

0 Replies

@hingehead,

Manning has allegedly been being kept in solitary confinement without vistor priviledges. He could face 52 years in prison that (if found guilty) I doubt will be shortened much for "good behavior". I don't know if he is held on suicide watch or not - meaning he would not have "lights out" at night time and have frequent interuption by guards.

The reason I point this out is that it is very difficult, and dire "punishment" for someone who has not been found guilty. This kind of treatment furthers makes one think twice if they want to be the "hero" and follow in Mannings footsteps.

2 Replies

@BillW,

Quote:

This kind of treatment furthers makes one think twice if they want to be the "hero" and follow in Mannings footsteps.

True, but martyrdom also has its attractions.

1 Reply

@BillW,

The US government is scary. Freedom of speech, freedom of the press, does not protect one if they work for the government. We also know what happened to Arab Americans after 9-11; they lost most of their freedoms when they were taken by the police or other "officers" to be questioned without their rights to representation by an attorney.

1 Reply

@hingehead,

hingehead wrote:

Quote:
This kind of treatment furthers makes one think twice if they want to be the "hero" and follow in Mannings footsteps.

True, but martyrdom also has its attractions.

Manning is neither a hero nor a martyr (although I suspect he is now comforting himself with one or the other attribution).

He is an idiot who allowed himself to get caught up in an affair, the possible consequences of which he could not fathom.

2 Replies

@cicerone imposter,

Quote:

The US government is scary. Freedom of speech, freedom of the press, does not protect one if they work for the government. We also know what happened to Arab Americans after 9-11; they lost most of their freedoms when they were taken by the police or other "officers" to be questioned without their rights to representation by an attorney.

And, may I add - your personal experiences - it is very scary what can happen, and still does! I want you to know I deeply honor you for what you've gonna through! This is truly and extremely tough crossroads for a patriot to have to witness.

1 Reply

@Finn dAbuzz,

Quote:

Manning is neither a hero nor a martyr (although I suspect he is now comforting himself with one or the other attribution).

He is an idiot who allowed himself to get caught up in an affair, the possible consequences of which he could not fathom.

So true, the blanket copying of that amount of data he got ahold of and release without any kind of a review is massively irresponsible. I'm sure there is some information that is heroic to expose, and I'm equally positive that there is some information that is totally treasonous to reveal. One does not excuse the other.

1 Reply

@BillW,

BillW wrote:

Quote:
Manning is neither a hero nor a martyr (although I suspect he is now comforting himself with one or the other attribution).

He is an idiot who allowed himself to get caught up in an affair, the possible consequences of which he could not fathom.

So true, the blanket copying of that amount of data he got ahold of and release without any kind of a review is massively irresponsible. I'm sure there is some information that is heroic to expose, and I'm equally positive that there is some information that is totally treasonous to reveal. One does not excuse the other.

Particularly since there is absolutely no reason to believe that Manning spent more than five minutes in considering the extra-personal ramifications of his releasing a ton of information, simply because he could.

He is no more a true hero or true martyr than some deluded half-wit who is persuaded to detonate a dynamite vest within a city mall or commuter bus.

2 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

True - but, others don't see it that way. Whether it be Manning or the overt terrorist acts. So goes the world <sigh>

1 Reply

@BillW,

I also remember our history before, during, and immediately after WWII. Even after working with nukes, I found our government exposing our soldiers to radiation at test sites to see what effect the radiation will have.

Our governments illegal wars in Vietnam and Iraq are more recent, and what we did in both those countries are a crime against humanity. It's too bad there isn't a world court to protect those countries who fall prey to our "shock and awe" and agent orange bombardments.

Trust our government? Never.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

That crossroads thing I already mentioned ci. Which path to take? This is the most exasperating thing I can ever remember - at least since the last one Confused

0 Replies

@Finn dAbuzz,

Y'all make movies about idiots like these, Audie Murphy comes to mind, but they were idiots killing innocents. Manning may have done something that will prevent idiot presidents from sending idiot "hired assassins" to kill innocents around the world.

1 Reply

@JTT,

Quote:

. Manning may have done something that will prevent idiot presidents from sending idiot "hired assassins" to kill innocents around the world.

Much more likely will convince Presidents that the citizen is the enemy.

1 Reply

@hawkeye10,

I'm not sure of even that any more - I don't think we've really cottoned on to how much the world has changed - controlling the media and govt may no longer be enough to control the pervading world view. I think that's the real battle being fought here.

0 Replies

WikiLeaks about to hit the fan

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know