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Dasein.........."death" as we interpret it....

 
 
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 12:27 pm
What are your thoughts on this Dasein? Is death merely a concept learned through living?

Talk to me.......(you/me/us)
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Type: Question • Score: 0 • Views: 916 • Replies: 18
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JPLosman0711
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 12:53 pm
^^^^^^^^^
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JPLosman0711
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 23 Nov, 2010 04:39 pm
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
0 Replies
 
Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 12:22 pm
@JPLosman0711,
JPLosman0711;

In terms of the measurable, definable, world, and the 'they', 'death' is interpreted as that which happens at the end of 'life'. Another word we use for the end of life is 'demise'.

For the purpose of this conversation I will use 'death' (demise) when I am speaking about what happens in the measurable, definable, world and I will use 'death' (Be-ing) when I am speaking of Be-ing.

Be aware, when people speak of 'death' they are most likely speaking about 'demise'. You can't count on them to make the distinction for you. Humans Be-ing readily interchange (confuse) the two words when they come face-to-face with their own mortality and are meaning 'demise' (what happens to a physical body, plant, animal, or man).

Let's clear up the matter of 'demise' first and be done with it. It is rather simple. 'Birth' and 'death' (demise) are two sides of the same coin. When you are 'born', 'death' (demise) is inevitable and nobody can take it away from you or do it for you. It is the only certain/uncertain certainty you have. Just about everything you do between 'birth' and 'death' (demise) is an avoidance of 'death' (demise).

Let me be very clear here. 'Death' (demise) is to be avoided at all cost.

Monuments (headstones, statues, buildings) are an attempt to extend 'living' past the point of 'death' (demise) or immortality. All of this points to one thing and that is: The moment you are born you are already 'dead' (demise), you just don't know when it will happen. Put down the turd, 'death' (demise) and refuse to play patty-cake with it, you can't do anything about it anyway.

Have you ever had a bad enough accident that it made you confront how you are living your life? Have you ever been in a precarious situation and said something along the lines of “If you'll get me out of this I'll never do such and such again” and experienced a shift in your outlook on life? What I just said is a hint that points to 'death' (Be-ing). When you 'close the door' on the way you have been Be-ing, that's another hint that points to 'death' (Be-ing). Those 'hints' are all evidence you need to assure you of the possibility of 'death' (Be-ing).

You should avoid 'death' (demise) at any cost, however, you should run towards 'death' (Be-ing) and experience 'death' (Be-ing) as many times as you can. That's where you'll find 'living' (Be-ing who you are).

'Death' (demise) is a concept we 'play patty-cake' with to remind us to 'live'. However, 'living' is not the opposite of 'death' (demise). 'Living' is something else. It doesn't happen in the realm of the measurable, definable, world, it happens in Be-ing/knowing.

'Death' (demise) is just one of a whole world of concepts we use to hide behind. Your lot in life is to deconstruct the concept of 'death' (demise) and uncover the possibility of 'death' (Be-ing/liv-ing).

Let me say it again. Your lot in life is to de-construct the 'concepts' of life and uncover the possibility that the 'concepts' of life (the measurable, definable, world, and the 'they') don't define who you are. They can only define you as a measurable, definable, thing.

Deconstructing concepts of things like gun, car, airplane are so easy that you don't even take notice. The difficult concepts are the ones that humans Be-ing use to define Be-ing. Since “you should avoid 'death' (demise) at any cost”, when you come close to 'death' (Be-ing) you turn the possibility of not being able “to prove your existence in this world” into a concept to represent Be-ing.

As you de-construct the 'concepts', one by one, and disentangle your 'self' from the labyrinth of measurabilty and definability, you come to a point where you recognize that using the 'measurabilty and definability of the world' to prove your existence never 'captured' who 'you' really are. When you discover that the 'world's concepts can no longer capture 'you', you come face-to-face with the possibility that 'you' can't prove 'you' exist, not even to your 'self'.

Physics has proven that two things cannot occupy the same space, so, when 'you' existing, come face-to-face with the possibility that you don't exist, a very interesting thing happens. When both 'you existing' and 'the possibility that you don't exist' try to occupy the same space, they cancel each other out and both disappear. What gets left in their place is 'you', Be-ing.

What you have just experienced is 'death' (Be-ing).

When you experience 'death' (Be-ing), you will discover that you are no longer a slave to proving/not proving your existence and that now you have 'room' for you to replace 'proving/not proving your existence' with something else. This is the essence of human freedom.

In 'death' (Be-ing) you answer the question "Who am I?"

This is the 'story' (representation) of what happens in “Being and Time" by Martin Heidegger.

Heidegger speaks to Be-ing. It is why I read “Being and Time" 74 times. I was running toward 'death' (Be-ing).
JPLosman0711
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 06:46 pm
@Dasein,
cant wait till i die
0 Replies
 
JPLosman0711
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 06:46 pm
@Dasein,
cant wait till i die
Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 06:50 pm
@JPLosman0711,
I don't understand. Why do you post twice?
JPLosman0711
 
  1  
Reply Wed 24 Nov, 2010 07:16 pm
@Dasein,
mistake - had a question for you though - how did u feel when u first "figured" out you could only talk to yourself? i personally didnt react to it all that well.....
Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 12:41 pm
@JPLosman0711,
I can tell.

There ain't nobody out there JPL.

It's all you - Be-ing.
JPLosman0711
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 03:22 pm
@Dasein,
Is there no such thing as love then? Plus - I'm still interested to hear what your reaction was to finding out you could only speak to yourself?
Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 04:49 pm
@JPLosman0711,
I can't tell you anything about love. I've been in love but I don't think I got everything that was available.

The source of all human upset is unfulfilled expectations. I don't think I found out all at once that I could only 'think' for myself. It was a gradual process of unfulfilled expectations so when I figured it out, it was no surprise.

What really surprised me is communicating with you. Totally unexpected.
JPLosman0711
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 05:06 pm
@Dasein,
I see myself in your words...............if that makes any sense.........but yeah it was unexpected for me too - I've read all your posts by the way and love them
Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Thu 25 Nov, 2010 05:25 pm
@JPLosman0711,
JPLosman0711 wrote:

I see myself in your words...............if that makes any sense.........but yeah it was unexpected for me too - I've read all your posts by the way and love them

My words are your words. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to re-cognize your 'self' in them.
0 Replies
 
spidergal
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 10:03 am
@JPLosman0711,
Quote:
What are your thoughts on this Dasein? Is death merely a concept learned through living?

Talk to me.......(you/me/us)


So you're going to have a twosome here on A2k or what?
Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 10:24 am
@spidergal,
I guess you don't get enough attention at home.
0 Replies
 
JPLosman0711
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 04:38 pm
@spidergal,
YES................happy now?
0 Replies
 
JPLosman0711
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Nov, 2010 10:52 pm
@Dasein,
I want to hear all your ideas............
Dasein
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 01:52 pm
@JPLosman0711,
JPLosman0711 wrote:

I want to hear all your ideas............

Do you recall when I mentioned to you that now when I listen to people I know right away if they know what they are talking about? To demonstrate what I said to you I'm going to take quite a few liberties with what you posted. It is an extremely simple sentence, but as we go through it together you will get an 'inkling' of the 'labyrinth' I have been referring to.

The dictionary defines “idea” as:
“any 'conception' existing in the 'mind' as a result of 'mental understanding', 'awareness', or 'activity'.”

#1. The very first thing you should notice is that when it comes to reading the dictionary we don't question what it says. Not even for a nanosecond do we even recognize the possibility of questioning the dictionary. We just blindly read it as if it is the final authority in the matter (“God”). Take a moment for that to sink in. Ever since the moment you could say the word 'dictionary' it has determined your 'existence' and you haven't even noticed that you didn't have a choice in the matter.

#2. The next thing you should notice is that 'idea' is associated with the words 'conception', 'mind', 'mental' 'understanding', 'awareness', and 'activity'.

Let's take a look at those words.
Conception: the act of conceiving; the state of being conceived; a notion; idea; concept:
Mind: the element, part, substance or process that reasons, thinks, feels, wills, perceives, judges, etc.; the processes of the human mind. (in other words, it's ”the processes of the human mind” that determine the existence of Mind, so, Mind defines Mind. What the hell!!)
Mental: of or pertaining to the mind (see the definition above)
Understanding: mental process of a person who comprehends; comprehension; personal interpretation: (see 'Mental' and then 'Mind', above)
Awareness: having knowledge; conscious; cognizant:
Activity: the state or quality of being active

One other word we should address that is not included in the definition of 'idea'.
Characteristic: a distinguishing quality, attribute or trait

#3. Review the list of words above. All of those words (concepts) represent one word which is the word 'idea' (concept). We use Mind to define Mind and 'concepts' to validate 'concepts'. We never question what we are doing and never question the measurability (length, width, depth, locality, mass) of the 'concept' we are using. Take a moment to notice and you will see that all of the words used to define 'idea' are 'concepts', representations of Be-ing/living, they are not living, Be-ing.

#4. Another pattern you should take note of is that in the case of 'Conception', 'idea' is used to define 'Conception' and that a 'Conception' is a concept. So, 'Conception' is a concept that defines the word 'idea' and an 'idea' is a 'Conception'. What's up with that? The only thing in the definition of 'Conception' that seems to come close to being accurate is the part where it says “being conceived”, which points to Be-ing/thinking.

#5. Mind uses “the processes of the Mind to define itself, Mental uses Mind to define itself, and Understanding uses Mind and Mental to define itself. Let's address the word 'Mind' first, it seems to be the keystone that holds the flim-flam all together.

As part of our agreements with each other, we require “proof of existence” before we accept that entities exist. 'Proof of existence' is determined by 2 criteria, measurability (length, width, depth, locality, mass) and definability. Both measurability and definability have to be present before 'proof of existence' can be accepted. Mind (and just about every other concept) has plenty of definability and absolutely no measurability. Why is it that humanity (yeh, you) demands that we use measurability and definability as the criteria for 'proof of existence' only to give a pass to Mind (and just about every other concept) when it comes to measurability? Don't you find that to be a little curious?

Mind is an ethereal concept which define itself. It is assumed that when we think, that thinking has to come from somewhere, so mind is a representation of a container that stores 'thoughts'. Mind was inserted into our language prior to 900 AD.

The existence of Mind can't be proven. Since Mind doesn't exist what do we do with the words 'Mental' and 'Understanding' which are defined by Mind?

Is all of this becoming a little confusing? If the answer is yes, then we are on the right track. In Japan, temples have two beasts sitting on either side of the door. I opine that the temples represent Be-ing and the beasts represent confusion and doubt. You have to go through confusion and doubt to enter the temple, to 'Be' who you are. Actually, I find that you're already Be-ing who you are and letting the confusion and doubt distract you from Be-ing.

#6. Out of all those words that are used to define 'idea' there are only two characteristics which come close to representing the word 'idea'. In the definition of 'Conception' you have 'Be-ing conceived' and in the definition 'Activity' you have 'Be-ing active'. 'Idea' is a representation of the 'act' of 'conceiving'. It is a process, not a 'thing' that you yank out of a container called Mind.

#7. Glance over the words and definitions (above) and notice that if anybody tried to flim-flam you with all that misdirection, you would tell them to get the hell out of your life, pronto. You have given Merriam-Webster the status of “God” in your life and you operate (blindly) as if Merriam-Webster is “God”.

#8. The last thing you should notice is that all of this was started by one little word, 'idea', which has led to another word and then to another word and on and on. We are “The Tower of Babel”. The world dictates our existence by using a labyrinth of measurability and definability as the standard to represent Be-ing. You confuse your 'self' with the concepts of the world and turn your 'self' into a 'thing' instead of Be-ing your 'self'.

Nobody, and I really mean nobody, can disentangle you from the labyrinth of 'mis-conceptions' and presuppositions. The purpose of this is to remind you that's your job to do. Most people don't know that they need to do a serious and systematic study to attain their freedom. They actually think that it's something they are entitled to as a consequence of a proclamation or by fighting a series of wars.

Nobody cares if you do the work. As a matter-of-fact they wish you wouldn't, because you will be a reminder that they aren't getting their job done.

If you can't 'hear' what I'm saying and it is not calling out to you to do something about your freedom, then maybe you should click on the “Dasein” link and then click on the “Ignore User” button. Keep yourself from going through the aggravation of asking me to explain only to have me respond by telling you that it can't be explained. Until the day I disappear from this forum I will keep posting. You don't have to keep reading what I post.

If you want to argue with me about what I've written, that's okay. Just don't expect me to participate in your argument. I'll click on the 'Ignore User' button for you.

JPL; Remember your post which started all of this: I want to hear all your ideas............

I don't have any ideas.
JPLosman0711
 
  1  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 06:49 pm
@Dasein,
Alrighty
0 Replies
 
 

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