He proposes a valid argument that while in a dream a person cannot tell the difference between the dream and reality.
Just because I'm thinking about my grocery list and forget what I went upstairs for doesn't equate to the absense of self.
I shall say it once more since you don't seem to get it. Descartes' "I" has debatable ontological status. The qualitative difference between "dreaming" and "wakefulness" may evoke a particular aspect of "self" rather than be "experienced" by a consistent entity called "self". Those instances during "the day" when any aspect of self is absent is little different from dreaming...hence the term "day-dreaming".
I am the very same person whether I am awake or whether I am asleep
One of man’s important mistakes, one which must be remembered, is his illusion in regard to his I.
Man such as we know him, cannot have a permanent and single I. His I changes as quickly as his thoughts, feelings and moods, and he makes a profound mistake in considering himself always one and the same person; in reality he is always a different person, not the one he was a moment ago.
Man has no permanent and unchangeable I. Every thought, every mood, every desire, every sensation, says "I".
Man has no individual I. But there are, instead, hundreds and thousands of separate small "I"s, very often entirely unknown to one another, never coming into contact, or, on the contrary, hostile to each other, mutually exclusive and incompatible. Each minute, each moment, man is saying or thinking, "I". And each time his I is different. Just now it was a thought, now it is a desire, now a sensation, now another thought, and so on, endlessly. Man is a plurality. Man's name is legion.
Quote:I am the very same person whether I am awake or whether I am asleep
Wake up Ken! Who do you think you are talking to when you verbalise "in your head" ? Who was running for a train in his underwear in that dream ?
Of course ! I forgot you were a naive realist.
Why would "a self" need to discuss anything with "itself" unless "self" were a social construction, entirely predicated on its relationship to "others" ?
...Then you have no place in a "philosophy" thread ! Try the barber's shop.
Forget about what I am saying. Merely note that your "hero" Quine has written thousands of words on the inadequacies of Descartes' concept of "self". Why did you ever bother to cite him if you don't know what he is talking about ?
Quote:Just because I'm thinking about my grocery list and forget what I went upstairs for doesn't equate to the absense of self.
How would you describe self?
I think you and fresco may have very different definitions or explanations of the phenomenon.
Would you say that your forgetting what you went upstairs for equates to the absense of mind? It's a common enough phrase.
But then, what is the difference between "mind" and "sense of self".
I would say "mind" is our sense of awareness, our sense of self may be self awareness.
... He proposes a valid argument that while in a dream a person cannot tell the difference between the dream and reality. As, from personal experience, I know this to be true...