it's not so easy

my uncle chose the no nourishment/no water option

I think it was the right decision for him to make.

same for my grandmother

yeah, so did we, but I was just trying to say the issue ain't all that simple.

First off, I'm glad (not the right word) that you and L. D. are taking this important step. You're right, it's not simple -- how does one imagine all of these different scenarios in advance -- but, it's important.

Look to the hospice folks. They give clear guidance and protocol to intervention and end-of-life decision making. My understanding of their principles is that comfort and pain deterrence are the key factors.

there are various types of hospice (as we discovered) church sponsored that consider life sacred for example. we will avoid those. my brother died in a secular hospice, he could have had a bottle of whisky and a cartoon of cigs along with his morphine if he wanted.

so... did the whiskey and carton of cigs have an appeal?


I'm sure there's a middle groud.

My instructions to my family are:

I want morphine.

Give me enough morphine and I don't think I'll care if I get anything else.

Not to be glib, but my point is that while I don't want anyone to go to ridiculous, low percentage, high cost ends to keep me alive, I don't want to die in agony or much pain for that matter. Dope me happy and if I don't care if I'm thirsty, don't give me water.

Will we be lucky if we die in a manner in which our instructions can be followed?

The older I get, and the more death I experience, the more I feel like I want my death to take a little while --- at least enough time for me to make my peace with people and things. I don't think though that being in agony is going to allow me to make peace, and so if morphine won't do the job in terms of giving me the time I need, I want it to do the job in terms of putting an end to insufferable suffering.

My wife, on the other hand, wants all and every effort made to keep her among the living, and I'll become homeless if I have to, to meet her wishes. I'm sure she's given the matter as much thought as I have and that she's not running on fear alone.

Damn, but it's a bitch getting old.

not at all, the attitude did as did the morphine, he died in peace with his friends in support. Not much more a fag could ask for.

exactly right!

Yeah.

Hey, Finn. I just read today about the moral dilemma between what one's loved ones want and what we endure to give them just that. Interesting stuff...

No do not resuscitate orders for me. I have a standing order with my family for a walnut. I don't need any special drips or drugs, just put me out of my misery with a simple nut. It will kill me in minutes. That and maybe a joint, cause I'd like to meet my end happy.

As her legal guardian, I signed that my mother didn't get unnecessary life support (that's the legal term here).

It's not very easy to watch a loved person dying and not even giving water. (Fortunately, she didn't want any.)

It has been in a Catholic home.

I guess there could, under certain circumstance, be a moral dilemma, but not under mine.

I've promised my wife that I will abide by her wishes, and if doing so causes hardship, it will be limited to me.

My kids are all adults. I won't be spending money on medical care for my wife that could or should go towards their development. If I die penniless because I've met my wife's wishes, they won't inherit anything. I'm happy to say that this won't be a problem for them, not because they are all tremendously successful, but because they are not planning their lives based on an inheritance, and, more importantly, they would support my decision.

I suspect that my wife may change her mind when the time comes, but if she doesn't or there is no time for reflection and reconsideration, I'll abide by what she has now expressed as her wishes.

I hasten to add that I'm not laying claim to any heroics, as I fully expect my wife to outlive me, and make the matter moot.

I also hasten to add that I'm sure I won't be delighted to render myself homeless so that I can fulfill her wishes (to the extent possible), but quality of life has as much or more to do with what you think about yourself as how you physically feel.

My dad was in a hospice run by the Catholic church and had a medical directive with all that no heroic efforts language in it.

I agree with your sentiments about having to be witness to it. I'll forever be grateful for having gotten from the other coast to his bedside in time so that in his last moments of lucidity, he was aware that I was there and heard me tell him how much I love him and that it was okay for him to let go and finally rest in peace. I'll never ever ever be able to get out of my memories and dreams, the sounds and images of him during those last several days it took for the drugs that kept him comfortable so he could reach a point that allowed his body to finally give up the hopeless fight. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy.

I'll always remember and thank my cousins and other relatives for being there with me. The nurses were wonderful in helping us through it. Still, if that's the way I have to go, I'd choose it for myself rather than prolong the inevitable with futile and experimental efforts. I'd probably add a line in the directive that requests my relatives not be present after a certain point rather than inflict similar images upon their memories.

Just heard about a woman whom I know, who is caring for her 100+ year old mother. The mother is at home with the daughter, but has hospice coming into the home.

Hospice gave the daughter a lot of morphine, and told her to give enough medication to her mother to make her "comfortable".

If I were over 100, and dying, I would want the ultimate "comfort"!

This is what doctors do when their patient is dying and in great pain. They tell patients to be careful not to take too much morphine or it could kill them. They get the message of how to end their suffering.

BBB