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Hadron Collider Update

 
 
failures art
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 08:43 pm
@edgarblythe,
Beat me to the punch. I was going to post this!

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edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Thu 18 Nov, 2010 08:49 pm
@failures art,
Razz Arrow Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  2  
Reply Fri 19 Nov, 2010 02:28 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

Antimatter Breakthrough Could Lead to Starships, Says Scientist
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2372994,00.asp

"One of the main uses of antimatter would be a starship," said Kaku "Because you want concentrated energy. And you can't get more concentrated than antimatter."

I'm more anxious to know why there is so much more matter than anti-matter in our Universe (or apparently so). The theoretical answers might lead to more interesting ways to move star ships around than "pushing" them with reaction drives (which are never going to get us past the speed of light no matter what energy source we use to push them).
failures art
 
  0  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 12:06 am
@rosborne979,
Good point. If the theory that more matter than antimatter exists is true, isn't there a greater fundamental relationship we should be seeking? Could their be universes where there is more antimatter than matter? Perhaps this kind of thing is necessary?

So fascinating.

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Setanta
 
  0  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 02:27 am
Would not the "antimatter" in such a universe simply be considered matter? That is, were there any sentient creatures to ponder the question.
failures art
 
  0  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 04:18 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Would not the "antimatter" in such a universe simply be considered matter? That is, were there any sentient creatures to ponder the question.

lol. Reminds of a joke:

"Let's form two teams"
"Okay."
"We'll be Team-1, and you'll be Team-2."
"Why do you get to be Team-1?!"
"Okay, uh... We'll be Team-1 and you'll be Team-A."
"Perfect."

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0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  0  
Reply Sat 20 Nov, 2010 06:33 am
@failures art,
failures art wrote:

Good point. If the theory that more matter than antimatter exists is true, isn't there a greater fundamental relationship we should be seeking? Could their be universes where there is more antimatter than matter? Perhaps this kind of thing is necessary?

Even within this Universe the question of why there is more matter than anti-matter (at least as far as we know) could be a huge theoretical breakthrough. If Matter and Anti-Matter are equal but opposite, then you would expect them to exist in equal parts, but they don't. And if the Universe were homogenous they would annihilate each other and we would have no Universe, but we do.

Perhaps Anti-Matter has an inverse gravity effect where it repels everything including itself. It may be that the great voids we see between the filaments of superclusters that form the Universe are actually filled with an extremely diffuse fog of fundamental anti-matter, forever separated from the clumps of matter than collect in the cracks between the voids.

What we really need isn't a way to push space ships faster, but a better understanding of space-time and dimensionality. If we could alter the shape of space or bend gravity directly, then we wouldn't need to push things any more.
north
 
  0  
Reply Sat 27 Nov, 2010 10:58 pm
@rosborne979,
rosborne979 wrote:

failures art wrote:

Good point. If the theory that more matter than antimatter exists is true, isn't there a greater fundamental relationship we should be seeking? Could their be universes where there is more antimatter than matter? Perhaps this kind of thing is necessary?

Even within this Universe the question of why there is more matter than anti-matter (at least as far as we know) could be a huge theoretical breakthrough. If Matter and Anti-Matter are equal but opposite, then you would expect them to exist in equal parts, but they don't. And if the Universe were homogenous they would annihilate each other and we would have no Universe, but we do.

Perhaps Anti-Matter has an inverse gravity effect where it repels everything including itself. It may be that the great voids we see between the filaments of superclusters that form the Universe are actually filled with an extremely diffuse fog of fundamental anti-matter, forever separated from the clumps of matter than collect in the cracks between the voids.

What we really need isn't a way to push space ships faster, but a better understanding of space-time and dimensionality. If we could alter the shape of space or bend gravity directly, then we wouldn't need to push things any more.


" filaments of superclusters " sounds like Cosmic Plasma's to me ( Hannes Alfven ) that is the title of his book ( if interested ISBN # 9-0277-1151-8 )

interesting

rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 11:42 am
@north,
The large scale structure of the Universe shows that matter has collected together in threads which exist between large voids/bubbles of (apparently) nothing. It's sort of like a "sponge" structure.
http://www.mpa-garching.mpg.de/galform/millennium/seqD_063a_half.jpg
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 11:46 am
0 Replies
 
tsarstepan
 
  0  
Reply Tue 30 Nov, 2010 08:59 pm
@rosborne979,
Here is a good article on the Hadron Collider to go with those extraordinary pictures.

Quote:
Scientists recreate conditions at dawn of universe
Researchers working at the Large Hadron Collider in Geneva have produced a primordial state of matter not seen since the beginning of the universe.

http://www.csmonitor.com/Science/2010/1130/Scientists-recreate-conditions-at-dawn-of-universe?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+feeds/csm+(Christian+Science+Monitor+|+All+Stories)
0 Replies
 
north
 
  0  
Reply Thu 2 Dec, 2010 09:57 pm

so nothing new really
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 09:20 am
@north,
north wrote:
so nothing new really

Nothing substantial yet at least.

I suspect it will be a couple of years before anything really exciting is revealed by this collider. It'll take them another year at least to build up to top power, and then it'll probably be another year of analysis to understand what the see.

But before then there might be some exciting tidbits and speculation on what the lower level results are hinting at.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 10:07 am
@Fido,
Quote:
You hear all the time that the Greeks invented democracy... The Democracy of the Greeks was faded, and on the point of failure, and they did not invent it, for it was a natural form... It came with the Family, the clan, the tribe......
They dont like to talk about democracy....the Iroqouis had democracy and they were run over. The Philippines had a democracy 3 months before the US fleet arrived to announce they had been liberated. Democracy is political propaganda.....if you are poor you are not free.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 10:15 am
@edgarblythe,
Quote:
Antimatter Breakthrough Could Lead to Starships, Says Scientist
The hope here is people are dumb enough to approve finance.....like NASA and its PR machine. Even if just below the speed of light is attained (and it will never be) it will still take 4 yrs to get to the nearest star and 100,000 yrs to cross our galaxy. To get to the nearest galaxy will only take several million years though there are some dwarf galaxies closer to us then the other end of our galaxy.
0 Replies
 
Ionus
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2010 10:20 am
@rosborne979,
Quote:
I'm more anxious to know why there is so much more matter than anti-matter in our Universe
The current theory is it was a very slight anomaly between matter and anti-matter. vast amounts of these cancelled each other out, leaving a very very small amount of matter through sheer accident. That is all the matter in our universe.

Quote:
theoretical answers might lead to more interesting ways to move star ships around than "pushing" them
I have to say it doesnt look good. Worm holes, warp drives, faster than light travel, none of these looks as if they will ever work.
0 Replies
 
Fido
 
  0  
Reply Sat 4 Dec, 2010 10:15 pm
@north,
They reinvented the wheel, in a manor of speaking... Hardly nothing
0 Replies
 
hawkeye10
 
  1  
Reply Tue 18 Jan, 2011 10:42 pm
Quote:
The world as a whole never did end, but for American physicists a small piece of it has now. Last Monday the Department of Energy, which runs Fermilab, as it is known, announced that despite last-minute appeals by physicists, the Tevatron will shut down as scheduled in September.

The news disappointed American physicists who had hoped that three more years of running might give them a glimpse of as yet unobserved phenomena like the Higgs boson, a storied particle said to imbue other particles with mass.

“It’s a shame to shut it down,” said Lisa Randall, a Harvard physicist, who says she thinks the physics community gave up too easily. Dr. Randall organized a bunch of some 40 theorists to write a letter to the Department of Energy last summer urging them to keep the machine running. A message on her new Twitter account last week broke the news of the decision to shut down the Tevatron.

That leaves the field of future discovery free for the Large Hadron Collider, which started up a year ago outside Geneva at CERN, the European Organization for Nuclear Research, and is now the world champion.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/18/science/18collider.html

Europe wins. America, having sunk a boatload of money into the Super Collider but never building it, now exits the playing field.
0 Replies
 
BumbleBeeBoogie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2012 09:54 am
@edgarblythe,
Is The Hunt For The 'God Particle' Finally Over?
by Richard Harris - NPR Morning Edition
July 2, 2012

Before we get to the fireworks on the Fourth of July, we might see some pyrotechnics from a giant physics experiment near Geneva, Switzerland.

Scientists there are planning to gather that morning to hear the latest about the decades-long search for a subatomic particle that could help explain why objects in our universe actually weigh anything.

The buzz is that they're closing in on the elusive Higgs particle. That would be a major milestone in the quest to understand the most basic nature of the universe.

King Arthur had his quest for the Holy Grail. Physicists hope they are hot on the trail of the Higgs particle. You might call it the final puzzle piece, needed to complete the picture of how all the fundamental particles make up the universe.

Joe Lykken at the Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory in Illinois has been part of this quest since the early 1980s.

"Our former director, Leon Lederman, called the Higgs particle the 'God particle,' " Lykken says. "It was not meant to be a religious comment; it was meant to express our understanding of how the universe works. We think without a Higgs boson, you can't have a universe in the first place."

At the very least, the universe would be incredibly boring. That's because the Higgs particle, or Higgs boson, is supposed to explain why the atoms in the galaxies, the stars, the earth at our feet and in our bodies have mass. If they didn't have mass, we wouldn't exist as physical beings.

"We think the Higgs boson is a manifestation of the fact that the universe is filled with a force that we haven't been able to detect yet that gives other particles mass," Lykken says.

It's weird to think that particles only become massive by interacting with some invisible field. After all, we think of mass as the inherent property of an object. But that's what the so-called standard model of our universe predicts.

We may never be able to detect that mass field directly. But as you may recall from high school science, fields also come with matching particles. Electromagnetic fields, including visible light, are also manifest as abundant photon particles.

We don't see the Higgs particle, because it's incredibly unstable, "so it exists for a billionth of a billionth of a billionth of a second, or something like that, and then falls apart into other particles," Lykken says.

This brings us, at last, to that physics experiment on the Swiss-French border. The Large Hadron Collider has been banging together atomic particles at super-high energies in an attempt to produce a few Higgs particles. And scientists have been sifting through the resulting debris to see if they can find signs that Higgs particles appeared and then quickly broke apart.

Last December, the scientists there said they were seeing tantalizing hints. Now, they have a new pile of data. They are hoping to be able to say something more definitive.

"This is really the most exciting year in my career," says Matt Strassler, a theorist at Rutgers University. "And the reason it's so exciting is this is one of those very, very rare circumstances that, first of all, we know there's something to look for, and we know, whatever the answer is — whether it is there or not — it's going to be very interesting and exciting."

Thousands of physicists are waiting for the "aha" moment, whenever that might be. Drew Baden, a physics professor at the University of Maryland, says on one level, the discovery is expected, because it has been predicted for so long. But he says the physics world is like Christopher Columbus, who sailed off to the West, confident that he would eventually find the ocean's opposite shore.

"It's all theory, right? Because no one has done it," Baden says. "And then [Columbus and his men] get in their ships, and they actually make it. This is really deep."

Columbus took an abstract and unproven idea and proved it was true. Baden says that's exactly where the experiments in Switzerland are heading. They are turning squiggly formulas into actual physical things.

It's still a bit premature to declare success, "but it really looks good — people are starting to be convinced that maybe this is the new world that we're seeing," Baden says.

Finding the Higgs particle isn't like finding a speck of dirt. Nobody will ever see it directly. Scientists need to plow through huge amounts of data to be sure that the anomaly they are seeing represents an actual particle, not just fluky coincidences.

But the way things look now, sometime this year physicists will probably see enough evidence in that spray of subatomic particles to declare that they've finally found the Higgs boson.

PHOTO

http://www.npr.org/2012/07/02/155994840/is-the-hunt-for-the-god-particle-finally-over
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 2 Jul, 2012 12:47 pm
You might call it the final puzzle piece, needed to complete the picture of how all the fundamental particles make up the universe.


Once the search is over, some joker will announce that the particle is made up of a dozen particles they need to identify and so on into infinity - Mr. Green
0 Replies
 
 

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