plato's symposium

Plato is dead . . . he's dead as hell . . . he has no views on any subject.

And he was wrong when he did have views...

There is that, too . . . if he'd have lived in the early 20th century, he'd have been a fascist . . .

Or a Catholic, what ever the difference might be... St. Paul gave the church life; and Plato gave it form...

So, between Plato and St. Paul, the church is a lifeform?

Here's the first hit from a google seach on "plato body and mind":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dualism_(philosophy_of_mind)

Perhaps it is better to research it in that way than to ask the question on a philosophy forum, as you are asking for facts about what Plato thought. This isn't philosophy as much as it is history, in my opinion. I mean this as advice, and if you ever want to discuss philosophy of mind acording to Plato, I think a2k is a good place to be.

These homework questions are getting to be a pain. Have kids lost the self integrity to do their own research ?

Maybe they are just lazy. But to find the link I posted above took me all of 3 seconds, and if it's not the most relevant link it is a start.

But on a sidenote, it is perhaps better to think in terms of what kids have never recieved rather than what they have lost. Everything is instant today, and if it takes more than 2 seconds to get your bearings it is not worthy of attention. It is an inevitable result of the world we create, in my opinion.

Valid point !

Dana Plato?

It does not matter how people learn things as long as they learn... It would be cool if people still read the assigned material, but if my grade counted on it, I would not stop there; but would read some good history of, or guide to... My ability with written material is high; but the value of the dialogues to me is more that they stimulated thought rather than being directly relevent, so I sometimes took a different lesson from the one intended... I would say: learn all you can... You are paying for an education, and in the long run that is what is more important than the grade... Not everyone is as mentally impared as I am, or as far from a balanced education as myself, and yet, when life turns to **** on you as it often does, it is what you know that will pull you through, and not your grades... Nothing so contributes to happiness as understanding, and a certain amount of understanding must exist before people will ever feel the need to seek knowledge.

I dispute the implication that those who bring us their homework to do for them are going to learn anything.

Presuming you have ever asked for directions: did you learn where you were going... I would do their homework for them and blow it up their butts with a hair dryer if I thought it would help; and who can know... People cheat and sometimes learn just because of the tension involved... And then there was the Muslim teacher and philosopher who concluded that trying to educate a worthless person is like bouncing pebbles off a dome... Nothing gets in but what people learn to appreciate, and work for... Another, or perhaps the same man, ran away from home and education, and returned only after seeing a stone grooved by the constant wear of a well rope... He thought: If that rope can make an impression on that rock there is hope education can make an impression in my mind.... He may have had natural intelligence, but much of education is repetition... For those people without the ability to concentrate, or without the willingness to apply themselves, no amount of givin it to them will help; so what does it hurt??? The honest, and the intelligent will take a hint and follow up the hard earned money they spend with diligence and perseverance, and they will find they have bought something with both that will contribute to their happpiness as nothing else will...

The fact is we now live in a quick fix/instant information/limited concentration scenario antithetical to the essence of educere - the "leading out" of the spirit of enquiry. This point appears to be reflected in the "dumbing down" debate in educational policy. I don't know what the figures are for the US, but in the UK standard of questions being asked in the state GCSE examinations has been "caused to fall" to such a level, that some of the better high schools have dumped GCSE in favour of the International Baccalaureate in order to traditionally "stretch" their students .

That's a very specious analogy. They're not asking for directions, they're asking us to drive to the venue, take care of their business for them, and bring the results back home to them. It's hardly my fault if you can't see that for your idealistic (and silly) view of what children seek in the way of education.

Any learning a person does as a result of your doing their homework is strictly accidental or random, in my opinion. There is no guarantee that something will be learned. If you leave them to do it for themselves, however, and don't let up on them until they get it right, it is inevitable that they learn something.
For myself I wouldn't settle for the chance that I might learn something.

Agreed, but the UK has the advantage of for many years being a meritocracy... We are only technically a democracy, and theology has a better seat at government that philosophy when it deserves none at all...The problem is that where the people have no true power over their own affairs, and no true protection of rights, there they can be safely denied education... If on the other hand, that person had the possible power of life and death over you and yours, you would want him to know as much as possible in the hopes that education rather than ignorance would guide his behavior... We are ignorant and uneducated, and we know it, and it gives us a great fear of educated people, so that Mr. Obama is educated but dispised, and Clinton was intelligent but called "SLICK Willy" and people who is clearly ignorant of affairs, like Bush, or Palin can get elected with ease... Ignorance in our leadership is no protection... The danger is systemic...

It was not an analogy, but an example... The difficult thing is to get most people to recognize and react to their ignorance... You know; at 57 and nearly 58 it is too late for me to enjoy a formal education, so that one who does not recognize the value of what he has in an educational opportunity may always suffer ignorance... But not so much as myself...

It does not matter how many books I read, -as the source of most of my education by far, -because I will forever feel ignorant, and always be stuffing books in the dike of my education to keep ignorance from sweeping me away... People learn the knowledge they seek... As one told me: Only take the advice you pay for... Paying for it gets your attention, and the guy does not know the price he will forever pay for want of education.... I could try to give him what he wants knowing it will little help, for as the guy said: Take my advice, I'm not using it... Getting fools to take for free the very advice they will pay for is a waste of time... If he is smart he will learn in the very act of asking, but is that not rare??? We learn what we work for, what we suffer for, what we must have as a prize... All else is like water that cannot be carried away in ones hand... Easier to carry it in ones belly; that is, inside...

Given that you apparently cannot distinguish between an analogy (what you did in fact offer) and an example, i don't see that there's any point in continuing this conversation. Everyone, absolutely everyone, without regard to what formal education they have had is ignorant--no one knows or possibly can know eveything. Your maundering about ignorance is not to the point in a discussion of how kids try to exploit this site to accomplish homework which they can't be bothered to do themselves.