What is your opinion of "behavior" charts in classrooms?

I wonder about them too, Jane.

Mo's second grade teacher and I did something much like that. Maybe you told me about it and I suggested it to her! But she didn't use behavior charts so this class might be different in getting such a concession.

My meeting with the school is tomorrow. I'm definately going to bring this up.

You know, I have thought about it. It gets hard to wrap your mind around such possiblilites. I probably should.

I have a friend who has Tourette's. Her's is expressed through this very small movement that looks like she has the hiccups so I know it can be subtle.

Interesting, DrewDad. Thanks.

I agree that it's a self soothing thing but figuring out a way to allow it at school is difficult for the teachers and I understand that.

Strangely enough just yesterday Mo came home from school saying "I hate That Kid!" Turns out Mo had this tiny staper (unloaded) and he was clicking it against his forehead because "it just really felt good".

That Kid yelled out to the teacher that Mo was trying to put staples in his forehead. The class thought this was funny and laughed at Mo. Mo got really upset. Mo had to bring the stapler home so that there wouldn't be any further incidents.

I asked Mo to show me what he was doing with the stapler. It made this tiny little "tick" sound. It's so quiet that it shouldn't have distracted anyone, it must have been the motion of Mo doing it that distracted That Kid.

That Kid cause a way bigger disruption than Mo and Mo is the one who caught **** for it.

<sigh>

Late to the party as usual. My issue with the stop light system is more about how arbitrary it seems. My daughter is one who constantly tests limits so she's "gotten on red" for many distinctly different things. Some she expected but many she did not. After a while she would get on red any time there was a flare up as long as she was in the vicinity of the problem. I remember having a discussion with her kindergarten teachers about the stop light system being posted but not classroom rules. As a result the set of all things you could get your clip moved for was quite gigantic and my daughter probably found most of them.

I never thought about the public aspect of it. It was enough for me that everyone starts each day on green so the negative aspect isn't supposed to carry over from day to day (though it does). I don't know. Kids are so different and more and more I'm starting to think that classrooms themselves are almost absurd.

Do you think they would let him doodle? I still have to do that to get through meetings. It sounds like Mo is doing repetitive things when he concentrates much like we all do -- tapping a pencil, jiggling a leg, humming. Maybe we just need to find something that works for Mo that isn't disruptive? Apologies if you've already tried it.

I don't mean in your case or in regard to a specific situation - just pointing out in general that it is important for children to learn self control. And yes you need to learn about how to deal with different people - but you are in a better position (in most cases) if you can personally deal with different people.

Some people have a harder time with it than others, but it is personally helpful if you can adapt rather than the other way around. If we were all unable to adapt to those on the outskirts then those on the outskirts would really be in trouble. I do believe teachers should be able to deal with the "outskirts" and maybe utilize the help of a child that is more adaptable to assist. For example, my niece last year had another child that would speak for her - she would whisper to her and the girl would relay the message to the class. But this year, she doesn't have such a flexible teacher/classmates.

I can relate. I call Mo "The Boy Who Gets Blamed". Sounds like your daughter suffers from the same problem. I feel for her. Little girls are much crueler than little boys. They hold grudges and the gossip. Thank heaven's I don't have to deal with that.

I'm going to look to see if there are rules posted in the room. Thanks for the tip! I don't know if it will make much difference in the way I feel about it, though.

The school has tried a few things -- squeeze balls and the like -- but Mo sees them more as toys so it actually gets more disruptive.

Like you, I'm a huge doodler but I've never seen Mo doodle. I leg jiggle, finger tap, all kinds of things -- I even do it in my sleep, according to Mr. B.

I mentioned on another thread about how calm he gets when he holds his little pet snake and how amazing it was to see the transformation. I doubt they'd let him bring his snake to school.

I know you didn't, Linkat.

Living with someone like Mo makes one jump to the defense of others.

I think it's interesting that there seems to be so many problems with this "lack of self-control" these days. I have to wonder if it isn't that kids have changed but that schools have changed.

That's easy...think of all the pranks that went on when you were in school, and think about what the school admins response would be if some kid did that today.....

ZERO TOLORANCE!

Is it the kids who suck or is it their adult managers who are not up to the job that was done by past generations of teachers? Classroom sizes have shrunk, there is now double or triple the amount of support staff in the schools compared to 30 years ago, and STILL teachers are just barely in control of their classrooms? In a society that overall is much more placid and law abiding than was the case 30 years ago?? I think that we need to take a good look at the control policies in these schools today, and we can start with the idiotic and time sucking zero tolerance.

Hollywood is playing its part in portraying brats as lovable.

I am open to the idea that control of the classroom is more difficult than in was 50 years ago, but we by the late 70's were pretty wild, I cant believe that it is more difficult than it was 40 years ago. And the schools have so many more adults on hand now per child, how is it that they are having trouble with this? I think it has to be a combination of expectations and methods. I have already talked about how schools are the new boot camps, I think this is more of that.

But maybe I am wrong, maybe we need to talk about bringing back spanking.

I remember teachers throwing the duster at students and caning with the mallaca cane. Luckily I escaped all of that as I was a lovable child, too timid and smart enough not to rile up the teacher. The teacher had me sit on her lap. I got piggie back rides by female teachers. Of course, i was very little then.

I came in right at the end of spanking and rapping on the knuckles, in my day the preferred methods were torture ( a really long or boring task) and humiliation. I am figuring that new age teachers don't do any of that either.

I got racked on the knuckles by the principal for being with older students in the playing field. I liked listening to them rap (English usage to talk).

First, let me say that I really hate it when someone marks down post without commenting on what they have a problem with.

I don't think zero tolerance takes up that much time but I could be wrong. Mo's school is the one where a kid got suspended for having a GI Joe gun in his pocket.

My beef doesn't really include teachers but goes way up the chain of command. It's the policy makers and pundits who spit out nonsense without really looking at the reprecussions of their words.

And I blame parents who are suckers for sound-bites like "accountablility" and "standards" without really thinking about what they're asking for. People think that if they're kid is not at the top of the class they won't get into college. That's compelete and utter bullshit and they've bought it hook, line and sinker.

I blame the whole culture of competitive parenting that has brought us to this point.

But I know what you mean about pranks. My entire 7th grade class would have been expelled for smoking pot. Hell, they would have had to close down the entire school.

They don't trust high school students to leave the campus for lunch anymore. It's crazy!

I think a lot of brats are really lovable.

Hollywood is guilty of making rich, white parents think all poor and/or black children are brilliant. That way they're easier to ignore.

Or the parents.....maybe

I think that a lot more parents (percentage-wise) have abdicated responsibility for raising their children to schools. Schools aren't meant to raise people, they're meant to educate them.

People (as a big, huge generalization) don't seem to want to be responsible for the messes their kids get into. They try to put it onto the schools - and the resources aren't there.

If parents can't manage kids 1 on 1, or 2 on 1, how are teachers supposed to do it in 20 to 1 or 30 to 1 settings?

It's not an appropriate expectation, and it's not possible.

I think that I was being held accountable for the actions of 200+ teens whose parents would sue if their precious babies got into trouble during lunch, I'd have them all locked up somewhere. There's no way I'd let them out independently. I don't trust the students much - I trust their parents less.