Wal-Mart signifies all that is wrong in America

Values are one thing, Piffka, and cheap peanut butter is another. Or so it would seem...

0 Replies

Why am I not surprised?

Of course, they'll be using only the very best peanuts to produce that peanut butter. All the icky shriveled up, bitter, rancid and worm-eaten peanuts are carefully pulled out. The taste of the ones that might get through will be covered over with corn syrup. When they degerm those peanuts, I'm sure that some of the nutrients... the fat, for example, remains. Any additional fat needed will be brought in from only the highest quality sources.

The oils will be hydrogenated so that the butter can be a semi-solid and the product will have a longer shelf-life. The peanuts in that jar may have been harvested four or five years ago, but don't worry about that... worry instead about the hydrogenation process creating all those trans fats.

Yum-yum.

0 Replies

I'm not a fan of Wal-Mart and don't usually shop there when I'm in America -- but I don't understand the disgust people express about it. I suspect Wal-Mart mostly serves as a lightening rod for leftist anger and frustration.

When all is said and done, consumers shop at Wal-Mart because they prefer their offerings over those of other stores. If they didn't, they'd shop somewhere else. Producers supply to Wal-Mart because they prefer its terms to those of other potential customers. If they didn't, they'd sell to somebody else. Finally, workers work for WalMart because they prefer their working conditions to those of other potential employers. If they didn't, they'd work for someone else.

Nobody has to work for, deliver to, or buy from WalMart if he doesn't want to. So why do people keep doing it, if this company is truly as terrible as some in this thread assert?

0 Replies

You're not quite right there, Thomas. If you live in Podunk, Ohio and a Walmart moves in, then every other store that competes with them will go out of business. You won't have a choice... there is no somewhere else that isn't too far away. If you owned or worked at one of those stores (many of them being very small one-store operations)... suddenly you don't have anywhere else to work.

Walmart is known quite well for doing this, for breaking their competition. They are called Big Box stores. Their products are cheap and they have a lot of everything, even if none of it is good quality. Wal-Mart has effectively ruined lots and lots of small businesses. Because they are so big, they can afford to set below-market prices. They won't jack the prices up to real market levels until they have put the other stores out of business.

Wal-Mart gets almost all of its products from China, putting Chinese workers into the unenviable position of creating crappy trade-goods for an unknown public.

0 Replies

BBB
I've been watching this thread for a while to see what developed.

I despise Wal-Mart, always have, always will, for all the reasons others have stated here.

When I moved from California to Albuquerque in 2002, I brought my household goods with me. But I also had to buy a lot of new things for my new home.

I stayed away from Wal-Mart. But I also stayed away from the Malls and the big chain stores there.

Instead, I had my window coverings made by a local woman who did beautiful work in a small shop. They cost me less than I would have paid at a big store---and I wouldn't have found the unique fabrics or the quality I got. The talented owner can stay in business.

I bought furniture, especially bookcases, from a small shop where the price was comparable, but the quality was better. The talented owner can stay in business.

I bought a new vacuum cleaner from a small shop, which gives wonderful service and I didn't pay more than from the big chain stores. And the owner can stay in business.

I hired local small contractors, gardners, gutter installers, etc.---all in business for themselves. The service was wonderful at a cost far less than the big companies charge. They all can stay in business.

The only big chain stores I buy from are Home Depot and Lowes, where I can find everything I need for the extensive remodeling I did. Its hard to find small stores that can provide the full range of supplies these giants provide.

The only other things I had to buy from big chain stores were my refrigerator and dryer. I bought them from a big chain store over the Internet in California before I moved to Albuquerque so they would be installed immediately on my arrival.

I joined a local credit union where I bank and a cooperative grocery store, all run by its local members. My financial and insurance services are handled by local people.

I like dealing with real, friendly, talented, competent people. I like supporting and keeping my money in the local community and supporting the local people who help to make a wonderful thriving community possible.

Where does Wal-Mart fit in this picture?

BBB

0 Replies

Nicely put, BBB.

0 Replies

Piffka wrote:

If you live in Podunk, Ohio and a Walmart moves in, then every other store that competes with them will go out of business.

Why do they go out of business? Why don't customers keep shopping there if Wal-Mart sells inferior quality? Why don't employees keep working there if they offer better wages than Wal-Mart does? Why don't suppliers keep delivering to them if their terms are better than Wal-Mart's? In other words, how does Wal-Mart get to set up shop in the first place if it is known as an inferior alternative for everone involved?

0 Replies

You're lucky to have those options, BBB.

I find it a very rare thing to have a small shop be able to provide anything like competitive pricing on most products and services. I can't afford to subsidize their inability to offer competitive pricing, so I continue to shop where I can afford to. If a small shop is competitive, I will give them my business, but I can't go past that.

0 Replies

Piffka wrote:

Because they are so big, they can afford to set below-market prices. They won't jack the prices up to real market levels until they have put the other stores out of business.

Piffka, do you really anticipate Walmart putting everyone else out of business? They're a middle-league player here, so they're still fighting for market share. Their prices will stay low, because they have to. At least in this market.

0 Replies

Well, I successfully purchased a jar of Jif extra crunchy peanut-butter. ( I will assume it's the same Jif that they sell everywhere Pifka.) a door mounted coat hook and new bar-b-que grill as the wind destroyed ours last year. It is a Brinkman Pro series 2200 just in case you care. Oh, yeah, and a king size bag of M&M's.

All that during my lunch time...

0 Replies

I don't know about the food products, McG (but I'm sure someone will look it up), but I do know that there are different lines of clothing produced for Walmart. The Brand X jeans you buy at Walmart will have been produced at a different facility, and to different standards, than the Brand X jeans you buy elsewhere.

Of course, a lot of manufacturers do this for their own outlet stores as well.

0 Replies

Thomas wrote:

Piffka wrote:
If you live in Podunk, Ohio and a Walmart moves in, then every other store that competes with them will go out of business.

Why do they go out of business? Why don't customers keep shopping there if Wal-Mart sells inferior quality? Why don't employees keep working there if they offer better wages than Wal-Mart does? Why don't suppliers keep delivering to them if their terms are better than Wal-Mart's? In other words, how does Wal-Mart get to set up shop in the first place if it is known as an inferior alternative for everone involved?

Wal-Mart can sell at lower prices because of economies of scale and the leverage they have with suppliers. The corporation also gets sweetheart deals from local gov'ts eager to land the big-box store in their area. Wal-Mart has been known to clear out when the tax breaks end, but by then the local stores have been destroyed. So folks can drive even farther to buy what they need at Wal-Mart.

As for the wage issue, if Wal-Mart is hiring and you need a job, it's a place to work. High wages have nothing to do with it.

0 Replies

This is the story of my little town vs. Wal-Mart:
US against the WAL

ehBeth -- Yes, I do anticipate them putting a large number of small shops in small towns out of business. I doubt they can do the same in Toronto. I'm not going to go over the same old ground. I assume few people will read the first link... it was written by an amateur and is several years behind the times in web-ease.

This is a quote from an urban planner in Petaluma, California a year ago:

Quote:

Many of these chains' strategies depend on growth by capturing existing local market share, rather than actually producing new sales. This strategy feeds such giants as WalMart, Target, Home Depot, Lowe's, RiteAid, Borders and Barnes & Noble. This destruction to local economies and downtowns is extremely well documented by the National Trust for Historic Preservation and others. (www.mainst.org , www.sprawl-busters.com )

Many cities find that as local businesses start becoming successful, national chains come in to cannibalize the economic progress achieved by local effort and investment. They let the locals take risks, then come in for the kill.

They drive locally owned and operated businesses out, competing with below-cost "predatory" pricing, inside deals with manufacturers and distributors not available to smaller retailers, cost-cutting through centralized accounting, management, insurance and warehousing, volume purchasing power, and a willingness to pay higher rents than the locals can afford. They pay low wages with few or no benefits, using high-turnover part-time employees who can't afford local housing and must commute.

In the states they have done just this many, many times. They have a really bad reputation. My town is one of only a few, Ossobuco's being another, that successfully fought off Wal-Mart coming here.

Though they are a huge employer, not one employee is a union member, most make minimum wage, about $17,500 a year if they work full-time, which most don't... for fear they might be protected under federal guidelines. The CEO, btw, made $17.5 million dollars last year.

These are Wal-Mart stores they've opened last month:
January 14th, 2004

City, State (Store Number) Type

Mesa (Higley), AZ - 5257 Neighborhood Market
Mesa (Horne), AZ - 5332 Neighborhood Market
The Village, OK - 5286 Neighborhood Market
Baton Rouge (Coursey), LA - 5328 Neighborhood Market

January 28th, 2004

Evansville (SE), IN - 5372 Neighborhood Market

0 Replies

D'artagnan wrote:

Wal-Mart can sell at lower prices because of economies of scale and the leverage they have with suppliers.

But economies of scale are good, and suppliers always have the option of delivering to somebody else -- the incumbent businesses for example. Doesn't this put a limit to Wal-Mart's leverage with suppliers?

D'artagnan wrote:

Wal-Mart has been known to clear out when the tax breaks end, but by then the local stores have been destroyed. So folks can drive even farther to buy what they need at Wal-Mart.

On the other hand, small, local shops should be profitable again when Wal-Mart moves out of town, which provides opportunity and incentives to start up some new ones. End of problem, right?

D'artagnan wrote:

As for the wage issue, if Wal-Mart is hiring and you need a job, it's a place to work. High wages have nothing to do with it.

But if Wal-Mart moves into a town with more or less full employment, they shouldn't find enough unemployed people to work for them. They have to offer competitive conditions to make people switch jobs, or at least to not apply for jobs at incumbent businesses. And if it's moving into a town with lots of people looking for a job and not finding one, the problem is joblessness, not Wal-Mart itself. No?

0 Replies

I don't have the time right now to debate these issues point for point, Thomas, but if you read some of the previous posts in this thread, you'll see that in the real world (as opposed to the kind of idealized Adam Smith conditions you're describing), details such as high unemployment, poverty and the death of local businesses make Wal-Mart the only option for jobs and shopping.

Right now in Seattle, Walgreen's is spreading like dandelions on a summer lawn. They sell junk and compete with a local chain that's been around for decades. I'll do everything I can before I shop at a Walgreen's--even if I miss out on a better deal now and then on toothpaste and paper towels.

0 Replies

It is fun to bait the "angry and frustrated leftists" by pretending you don't understand, isn't it?

Wal-Mart will go down... eventually.

0 Replies

D'artagnan wrote:

if you read some of the previous posts in this thread,

I did, thank you very much.

D'artagnan wrote:

you'll see that in the real world (as opposed to the kind of idealized Adam Smith conditions you're describing), details such as high unemployment, poverty and the death of local businesses make Wal-Mart the only option for jobs and shopping.

I'm not idealizing. The preference for Wal-Mart that workers, suppliers and customers reveal through their actions is something I observe in the real world. My point is that unemployment and poverty existed before Wal-Mart came into town, so it's a foul to blame them on the company. As for the death of local businesses, they wouldn't die if Wal-Mart didn't offer something that they don't.

D'artagnan wrote:

I'll do everything I can before I shop at a Walgreen's--even if I miss out on a better deal now and then on toothpaste and paper towels.

No problem. Just don't blame it on Wal-Mart if few people share your views, or share your views but don't put their money where their mouth is.

0 Replies

Piffka wrote:

It is fun to bait the "angry and frustrated leftists" by pretending you don't understand, isn't it?

It's a lot of fun, and fun is what internet forums are about isn't it? But it's not nearly as fun as watching you run out of answers Smile

Piffka wrote:

Wal-Mart will go down... eventually.

I have no problem with that.

0 Replies

We can only hope, Piffka. Actually, we can do more than hope. We can never shop there.

Something I've learned over the years is that the most important political act is not necessarily voting or donating to a cause of carrying a sign. It's deciding where we shop and what we buy.

Those who shop at Wal-Mart are working toward creating the America they deserve.

0 Replies

Piffka wrote:

It is fun to bait the "angry and frustrated leftists" by pretending you don't understand, isn't it?

Wal-Mart will go down... eventually.

Not in your life time.

0 Replies

Wal-Mart signifies all that is wrong in America

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know