Wal-Mart signifies all that is wrong in America

I'll use Walmart for certain things. They have a great fishing section at almost every store, their generic drugs are the cheapest you can find, and their hardware and automotive prices typically undercut just about anyone.

But I wouldn't go there for clothes.

Has anyone seen the new super Walmarts with the grocery store inside? I have, and I wasn't that impressed. I much prefer Meijer when I'm in the midwest, or Costco when I'm out west.

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I think Wal-Mart is a mediocre store, with mediocre low-cost piece-of-crap products that mediocre sheep go buy because their TV tells them to. And as for their corporate practices, they probably aren't much worse than most other corporations. The bottom line is money. Just because we are a capitalist society doesn't mean we have to support the fact that a dollar sign is placed on everything we see or do.

Just so you know, Mr. Allen, just because the country was built with capitalist ideas doesn't mean we can't rethink things and tweak what doesn't work.

Today's Laws favor big corporations over people. Can you possibly dispute that? That's about corruption, not capitalism, so stop pretending that the debate here is about economic ideologies.

Maybe someday when we are all living in trailer parks and working at Wal-Mart look-a-like stores as we suck down our disgusting McNuggets with shovels, we'll start to reign the big corporations in and let there be a little more even-handed treatment of corporations.

That being said, I don't blame Wal-Mart. I blame the public. Wal-Mart is just giving the sheep what they want. And that's the real reason that corporate greed, mediocrity and banality rule the day in the good ol' U.S.A.

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Kicky is right on re where the finger should be pointed. WalMart gets away with what we let them get away with.

If Americans care only about low prices and convenience (i.e., ample parking after driving for miles), then WalMart will continue to thrive. How workers are treated and where the stuff is made (where the workers are treated even worse) are of no importance, evidently.

It's a sad commentary on what we have become.

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Quote:

Would you feel differently if you knew the store depended on low-wage foreign workers, or undocumented, underpaid janitors, for its exceptionally good prices?

"Not really," said the woman. "They all do it. Why should I hold that against Wal-Mart?"

Walmart is typical of the stores who have sold their souls for the bottom line. "They all do it" is the rationale for obscene hiring practices in third world countries and the rationale for those people who shop at stores like Walmart.

It is all too easy to let the managers of these plants to put on a show of a happy factory while the inspectors are there, knowing that the inspectors know what is going on behind closed doors.

Everybody does it. What that says about us is pretty ugly.

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kicky can said:

Maybe someday when we are all living in trailer parks and working at Wal-Mart look-a-like stores as we suck down our disgusting McNuggets with shovels, we'll start to reign the big corporations in and let there be a little more even-handed treatment of corporations.

And that my friend is the idea, the master plan that our current puppet leader is helping his corporate masters with.

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MichaelAllen wrote:

WalMart gets blamed for Etch-A-Sketch moving to China? I find it interesting how a company can lose its integrity and move to China to drive its own costs down and someone can find WalMart to blame.

Mr Allen, you apparently did not read all the quotes or are replying only selectively. To refresh your memory I'll repeat the relevant statement

"To keep cutting costs, Wal-Mart is tough on its suppliers. Selling to Wal-Mart, by all accounts, is a brutal meritocracy. Manufacturers have been forced to lay off workers after Wal-Mart canceled orders when another vendor cut its price a few cents more. Other suppliers have shifted to low-cost operations in China and elsewhere when squeezed by Wal-Mart to cut costs further." (Lohr 12/7/03)

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Thanks everyone for the thought-provoking opinions, especially from those of you new to the forum.

I'll keep it going with another excerpt and link:

Quote:

A gallon-sized jar of whole pickles is something to behold. The jar is the size of a small aquarium. The fat green pickles, floating in swampy juice, look reptilian, their shapes exaggerated by the glass. It weighs 12 pounds, too big to carry with one hand. The gallon jar of pickles is a display of abundance and excess; it is entrancing, and also vaguely unsettling. This is the product that Wal-Mart fell in love with: Vlasic's gallon jar of pickles.

Wal-Mart priced it at $2.97--a year's supply of pickles for less than $3! "They were using it as a 'statement' item," says Pat Hunn, who calls himself the "mad scientist" of Vlasic's gallon jar. "Wal-Mart was putting it before consumers, saying, This represents what Wal-Mart's about. You can buy a stinkin' gallon of pickles for $2.97. And it's the nation's number-one brand."

Therein lies the basic conundrum of doing business with the world's largest retailer. By selling a gallon of kosher dills for less than most grocers sell a quart, Wal-Mart may have provided a ser-vice for its customers. But what did it do for Vlasic? The pickle maker had spent decades convincing customers that they should pay a premium for its brand. Now Wal-Mart was practically giving them away. And the fevered buying spree that resulted distorted every aspect of Vlasic's operations, from farm field to factory to financial statement.

Indeed, as Vlasic discovered, the real story of Wal-Mart, the story that never gets told, is the story of the pressure the biggest retailer relentlessly applies to its suppliers in the name of bringing us "every day low prices." It's the story of what that pressure does to the companies Wal-Mart does business with, to U.S. manufacturing, and to the economy as a whole. That story can be found floating in a gallon jar of pickles at Wal-Mart.

The Wal-Mart You Don't Know

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Man I hope they don't get into marketing pickled eggs, which I'm sure is considered a delicacy in Arkansas.

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Walmart is a prime example capitalism. If you accept the rules of Capitalism then you may love Walmart and all it is about. It seeks to maximize its profits and markets, minimize its cost and competition, leaving the forces of the market to decide who survives. To a pure capitalist, this may be a shining example of what America is supposed to be about. The Walton family comprise 6 of the top 10 richest people in the US.

I have never stepped foot in a Walmart because this is NOT what I want America to be about.

I rather NOT support 6 rich Waltons get richer while they squeeze mom-pop stores out of existence (as capitalistically effective it is)

I rather not support a corporation that price gouges competition, blackmails suppliers (exclusive sales agreements), cuts costs by employing disaffected people at lower rates and a host of other albeit "perfectly acceptable" free market tactics.

I rather not support Waltons who have an abysmal philantropy record.

And,

I know honorable people who have been happily employed by Walmart because they are undocumented or otherwise disaffected, and they at least get paid something there.

I also know honorable people who need to find the most inexpensive options, and often Walmart answers to their constraints.

There are valid reasons for shopping or working there, but to me they are hardly reasons to rejoice in Walmart, but rather shameful reminders of amoral tools of capitalism in the hands of immoral greedy people.

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From PDiddie's link:

Quote:

Wal-Mart has also lulled shoppers into ignoring the difference between the price of something and the cost. Its unending focus on price underscores something that Americans are only starting to realize about globalization: Ever-cheaper prices have consequences. Says Steve Dobbins, president of thread maker Carolina Mills: "We want clean air, clear water, good living conditions, the best health care in the world--yet we aren't willing to pay for anything manufactured under those restrictions."

What about the results? Sometimes abusive labor practices are ignored because the workers wouldn't be working at all without those awful factories. How do you tell if the labor practices include slave labor? Slavery is far more common than most people are aware of--like the factory in China, some of the workers are sold supplies from the company store which add up to more than their so-called pay. In effect, they have no recourse in which they can protest their working conditions.

Will the UN become involved? I doubt they would be very effective in stopping these practices. As far s I can see, there doesn't seem to be any answer to this immoral practice because there aren't enough people who would protest the practices of stores like Walmart. (Everybody else does it.) Crying or Very sad

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Did anyone see the piece on one of the Sunday morning shows (I think)?? blaming Wal-Mart for the FAO Schwartz bankruptcy, and putting Toys R Us on the ropes?

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Excellent article PDiddie

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I'm not generally a fan of big stores of any sort - but it is fun to go to WalMart in the U.S. - as a tourist (our WalMarts aren't nearly as interesting). Generally, I can get better prices elsewhere, but if the price is right I'll consider it. Target was probably the greatest shopping disappointment I've ever run into - shoddy merchandise at not good prices - and their corporate practices no more respectable than WalMart.

Now - how much have I spent at WalMart? $2 in the last 4 or 5 years. $0 at Target (and boy oh boy - i was looking forward to shopping at Target after all I'd heard - blahhhhh).

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this is definately NOT a discussion of merits of communism or socialism. Its an argument against a predatory chain store that uses advantage to kill towns, control products and minds, and toll the product entrance to their stores. 3000 WalMarts are an obvious advantage to a product manufacturer. so Wally uses his clout to control the content of material, develop special packaging , defer payment for goods for over 180 days, do it our way or walk. .
Its capitalism of the "robber baron" days of the union Pacific or the Pennsy Railroad, or of Dupont/GM/GE?Gen Tireand Rubber.
Michael Allen, you have a lot to learn from the history of commerce in our country. Whenever unbridled Capitalism was a norm, people suffered, thats a fact that cannot be ignored. Irish, Poles, Chinese, blacks, all were used and tossed like old rakes.
And , the mafia is as American as pizza. or Wal mArt

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Once again, I'll say the voice of opposition doesn't get much credit around here. I wasn't sure we were all supposed to agree.

My shift from bombarding WalMart with all of the blame you can possibly give it to calling this an argument of economic ideologies is actually on target. No pun intended.

WalMart isn't the greatest thing to come along since sliced cheese. But, it's only a vendor. Don't do business there. But, you can't wallow in your own ideas and ignore the opposition. It gives you good things to think about.

I feel as if I am the only one actually reading posts and getting the message. My mind grows each time someone has anything on any side to say. I love that. I don't sit here with hatred on my brow looking for a fight. I'm learning and responding and learning some more. And I feel, sometimes, as if I'm the only one doing that. Everyone else on this thread has their mind made up before they begin speaking. If that's the truth, why are we even discussing it? Nothing more would need said because we would all nod our heads in agreement and drink our cups of tea that we definitely did not get at WalMart.

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I shop at Walmart. Probably no surprise to some of you, but where I am it's not that easy to find everything you are looking for. You go to Walmart, and there it is. One trip and your all done. The convenience of Walmart is what makes it so wonderful.

Drop the car off to get an oil change, get your groceries, computer accessories, DVD's, clothes, toys, christmas needs, medicine...it's all there.

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I guess it is no surprise, McG, and I can understand why Walmart is appealing for folks who live away from urban areas. But just out of curiosity: If you had a choice between Walmart and other places to shop, would you still go to Walmart? And does its impact on local economies give you pause?

I'm not being provocative here, just wanting to understand how this all works. Most of the people on this thread (myself included) have been bashing the Walmart concept, but it would be good to hear another point of view.

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When you say other places, I guess I don't know what that means. I go to Target, Kmart, and a mall regularly, but they don't have the lower prices that Walmart has.

I buy most of my outdoorsy stuff elsewhere, including camping equipment and clothes. But, when the wife sends me for batteries, a toy, diapers, peanut butter, or some other small thing I head right to Walmart because I know they will have it in stock and it will be at as low a cost as I will find.

I already face a long commute to work, and I don't have lots of extra time to find parking and then go to 10 different stores to get stuff. Walmart fulfills it's goal in my opinion.

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Understood. "Other places" used to mean the local hardware store, army-navy surplus store and supermarket, but I'm conjuring up an image from my years in Upstate NY, 30+ years ago....

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I am anti-WalMart, as well. It's complete hell, and the long lines, huge parking lots, and playing bumper-carts down the aisles aren't worth any amount of savings.

About WalMart shoppers not caring about factories moving to sweat-shops in China, I think that there are a couple of reasons: As has already been mentioned, a lot of people simply blow it off because "everyone does it", but I think it's unfair to chalk everyone up to just being inconsiderate.

I think that most WalMart shoppers are low-income earners, and especially for these people, who are paid substandard wages themselves, it's difficult for them to take a moral stance on sweatshops -- they wonder why the companies in question can continue to pay six or seven figure salaries to some employees while laying-off wage workers to save money by moving to China. The low income workers here in the US rely on discount chains like WalMart for subsistance -- telling them that by shopping at the discount stores, they are supporting local job loss to sweatshops is like telling them that driving an old car or truck is bad for the environment. They may not want to contribute to bad air, but they literally can't afford to worry about stuff like that -- they have to take what they can get. People making minimum wage are kind of forced to shop at places like WalMart, and have worries of their own, like making rent or being able to afford groceries, and it's those worries about meeting basic needs that get in the way of worrying about sweatshops in China.

So a lot of the blame can go to the increasing difference between financial classes -- and WalMart is one of many that capitalize on this. I'm not defending WalMart or companies that use sweatshops...but a lot of us who can afford to pass up on WalMart seem to forget that not everyone can. I hate to see people presented as not caring about others when the real problem is that they have a hard time caring for their own families because of ridiculous wages being paid here in our own country, and the greed shown by the corporate big-wigs.

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Wal-Mart signifies all that is wrong in America

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