Wal-Mart signifies all that is wrong in America

I came across this board somewhat by accident, I was looking up a 'brand' that walmart sells called 'Penmans' (I'm in Canada).
Anyways, contrary to what people have been saying around here, I find certain brands/items at walmart have better value and quality than the discount items of say 5 or 10yrs ago. This is why I was looking up Penmans to find out about the brand.

We all know most of the items at walmart is made in china, where people get paid next to nothing, as well as walmart workers not getting much of a deal themselves. I remember when walmart made its move into Canada, I was seeing tons of 'MADE IN CANADA' in the clothing section. However over the years it seems like they silently lowered the banner and have resorted to 'MADE IN CHINA', Mexico, and elsewhere for their items. Has anyone else noticed this? I think other stores like Zellers and Kmart also once toted the whole 'MADE IN CANADA' thing too. But I'm sure after trying it for a few months they all realized its just not possible to actually pay someone min. wage to make things in Canada and still make a 1000x profit.

When Walmart entered Canada years ago, their attitude was very different, they wanted Canadians to feel comfortable with them being here, so like I said they went on and on about being a wholly Canadian sub. of the parent company, as I said also touting the 'made in canada' items. Also their 'greeters' had a much better attitude and you could actually get some help back then, however pretty much everything has gone out the window now, and its a sense of 'help yourself' when I go there.

Also the majority of the shoppers at the Walmarts around here seem to be rather poor and uneducated. I think at least around here, thats who walmart tries to cater to, those people don't care if theres slaves in china making the junk, and also don't care who is working on the floor at the walmart store they're in. The poor often have their own crummy lives to worry about than someone who's getting min. wage working at walmart or a slave in china who they never met. They see bums on the street all the time and while some may look to be in worse luck than themselves they don't think much of it.

For those of us who don't fit that mold, I do wonder, if the 20% or so who aren't poor and uneducated stopped shopping at walmart, would things get worse or better? I'd say they'd get worse. If walmart lost 20% of its shoppers, it would have to make it up elsewhere, which would probably add to even worse working conditions for everyone involved, from china to local walmart employees. I think walmart is capitalism at its best (or worse), it's all about the money and finding ways to keep shoppers coming back, as in my shopping case, perhaps actually putting out a few quality items to make up for the lower end ones.

On a side note, some discount stores are being threatened by dollar stores, at least here in Canada. In my city it's almost impossible to wander through a store or mall without hearing at least 5-10 people mentioning 'we could get that at the dollar store'. The idea of the dollar store items being so cheap is more in line with communism than capitalism, while there is still some bucks being made in dollar stores, and slaves making the items in china, there is far less profit and in fact store workers seem to have a much better deal working in dollar stores.

ben76, Welcome to A2K. It's always important to view issues from both sides of the coin, and your contribution is welcome. Many people in the states complain that WalMart employees are not provided with health insurance, so they end up going to our community hospitals at 'no cost' to them but picked up by "taxpayers." With Canada's universal health care, that issue is moot. I wished we also had universal health care, but many in this country are against it. It's pretty sad when the richest country in the world can't provide it's citizens with health care. Pretty sad, indeed!

When everyone adds his or her point of view,
you get the big picture, and that is what I love
about the internet!

I agree with the fact that it shifts the probs of health care, but it also works on a bigger scale, I think it downgrades the world not just your own country. As I said its a chain reaction but the bottom line is trying to make the most out of nothing for the company's owners, it's greed all the way down the line. I hope I don't get slammed for this but I think it goes all the way to the slaves that make the stuff, I'm not saying wanting to stay alive and just survive by being a slave is being at all greedy, but all governments need to put their foot down at the same time or the problem would never get fixed. Everyone is to blame for the problem, be it the workers, their government, local workers, shoppers and stock holders. I think as things are it's an impossibility to solve the problem.

In Canada our taxes are high and the government always blames out health care system for a big part of that prob. Most rational Canadians would easily take some break in health coverage to save the system, which is finally happening. I'd never wish full coverage on any country it's not deserved by anyone, nothing is 'free', I think we all should offer something in someway for health, the fact that ours has been pretty much a no-questions asked system for many years has lead to the system downfall. On the other hand, those workers in places like china perhaps have worked more than enough for a lifetime of help in some instances.

ps: shepaints, i hope that wasn't a dog, because i feel my views are very well placed around here.

Weve discussed this before but tthere are many Wal Mart products that have a "made in -------- for Wal Maart" . These include products of known brand, like appliances and tools.

...not sure what you mean Ben, your contribution
is very thought provoking.

An impressive set of first posts...you're welcome around here Ben

From my Aug. 4 post.....
I see that Walmart is planning to move next
to a 600 acre religious retreat somewhere here in Ontario. Not surprisingly, there is a conflict between Walmart and the retreat administrators. Apparently they will not be placated by promises
of berms etc. to cut down on potential noise, traffic.

Yesterday Walmart wins right to build.

I heard from an Aussie friend who's town is now being intruded by the building of a WalMart in their small town atmosphere, and the majority of citizens are against it, because the architecture doesn't fit. Their local newspaper took a poll to find out if they wanted it built or not, and I voted "no."

not to sound like i'm agreeing with walmart in moving in on such territory.. but there must be a fair amount of people who do want them there, they won't build stores just anywhere... In my city actually I feel they are either misplaced in their location or could stand to build another one, (speaking in their own ideals and profit maximizing way of course).
To better explain this city, we have an escarpment (mountain area) that they build one on, - not many people care to go up or down the escarpment to shop at any store. Also we have another one (on the side of a bordering city) however that too seems a little far for the rest of our lower escarpment population. City population is 1/2 million people. Sure those who really want to go to Walmart will make their way there, but some people are also willing to buy taxi loads full of junk from places like that, and a $10-15 cab ride is something they take into account to decide if they want to even do such a thing....

of course playing devils advocate in this post....

There has been a ten year battle to get approval for the site.
(12,100 square metre store and 1800 square meters of additional retail space). The Ontario Municipal Board has given the green light. There is a citizen's board that opposed the Wal-mart proposal.

Arguments included that the proposed store violated the rights of an adjacent retreat to freedom of religion. Counter argument was that the
group had adjusted to a Canadian Tire and Staples store across the road, and they didnt believe the Walmart store would result in a closing of the
religious center.

Walmart is reviewing the decision.

quotes and paraphrase from A2 Toronto Star
Jan 4, 2005 by Scott Tracey.

well i kinda doubt the religious centre would close just because a walmart goes up. I don't know what the land looks like, but Canadian Tire and Staples are also big stores, which leads me to believe that the area isn't exactly the quietest area as it is. I'm sure the stores that are there already bring a fair amount of traffic and noise to the area as it is.

Ben, I was more sympathetic till I read about
the other stores, though they would not attract
nearly the same kind of traffic. The proposed Walmart site is between two cemeteries across
from the religious retreat. Resident Committee objects to location, location, location but I dont
think would be opposed to Walmart locating
elsewhere in the city....(Walmart must have
the $$$ to do this). The proposed location is in the least populated area of Guelph....
Headline in National Post yesterday reads....
"God and Walmart forced to get along."

Today Mr Scott, chairman of Wal-Mart went on the offensive against his critics.
I don't know if this Union broadside has been posted or not...if it has ,forgive me.
I'm actually ambivalent about Wal-Mart though this article definitely had an impact.


you are here: http://www.ufcw.org/issues_and_actions/walmart_workers_campaign_info/index.cfm


The Wal-Mart Threat

Wal-Mart threatens the wages, health-care, benefits, and livelihoods of workers across the country and around the world. Whether you work or shop at Wal-Mart, the giant retailer's employment practices affect your wages. Wal-Mart leads the race to the bottom in wages and health-care. The company's disregard for the law and systematic suppression of the basic democratic rights of workers is undermining fundamental American values.

There is no questioning the company's incredible efficiency and shrewd market sense. The innovative business strategy of Sam Walton has transformed the retail industry. But along the way his successors have lost track of the community and worker focused values on which Walton built his success.

As the largest corporation in the world, Wal-Mart has a responsibility to the people who built it. Wal-Mart jobs offer low pay, inadequate and unaffordable healthcare, and off the clock work. Having a job at Wal-Mart means relying on family, the community, or the government to pay the bills and provide health care. Wal-Mart's growth actually depresses natural wage increases. In areas where Wal-Mart increased its share of the retail food market by 20% or more 1998-2002, cashiers' wages fell 40%-31% below the national average increase.

Wal-Mart's disregard for its workers encourages other employers to do the same. The company pressures its extensive network of vendors to cut labor costs and lower prices every year. The demands force clothing, toy, plumbing, and grocery suppliers to layoff workers, lower wages and benefits, and take their factories overseas or move from one low cost country to another. As one Honduran manufacturer, worried that his business will soon lose out to Chinese factories, told the LA Times, "We're earning less and producing more."

But even in Wal-Mart's shadow, every business must take responsibility for its own choices. In the current contract dispute in Southern California, resulting in 70,000 grocery workers on strike and locked out, three of the most profitable companies in the industry are hiding behind Wal-Mart while effectively eliminating health care for their employees. Safeway, Kroger, and Albertsons' combined profit rose 91 percent over the last five years and they control 61 percent of the grocery market in Southern California; yet, they are asking their workers to sacrifice their health to increase those profits even more.

At the heart of this fight is a question of values -- the values of the hard-working, middle class American worker or the underlying greed of the largest company in the world. Every person working hard for a living earns the right to a decent wage, affordable health-care, and a voice on the job. But Wal-Mart's greed provides other companies a license to chip away at the rights of working America, influencing everything from wages to working conditions. Wal-Mart is transforming America from a secure middle class country to one of extremes: those struggling to survive at the bottom and the rich getting richer at the top.

Find out more about Wal-Mart: Choose from the links below to learn the truth about what Wal-Mart is doing to America's workers.

Facts and Figures
Workers Speak Out
Wal-Mart Campaigns
Take Action
Resources
News
NLRB Rulings
Worker Voice Radio

Millions in Bonuses for Wal-Mart Execs, Thousands in Unpaid Hours for Wal-Mart Workers. . . read more

Walmart, just because you can, doesn't mean
you should.....I say take the high road and relocate!

of possible interest

Inside the Leviathan

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/17647

Unfortunately many people miss the original reason for Wal Mart establishing itself in the first place: They are able to provide the consumer with goods far cheaper than Uncle Abe's Hardware Store could.

I grew up in a small town of about 1500 people during and after World War II. There were few stores; pharmacy, hardware, grocery, barber and that was about it. The proprietors were very friendly, just like nostalgia dictates, and I am sure some of them soaked their customers simply because there were few if any alternatives.

I shed no tears for the demise of the small retailer. I am all for huge stores, lots of variety and lower prices. To heck with nostalgia and to heck with paying high prices just to sustain Uncle Abe so he and his wife and family can go on gouging! :wink:

Plus, I can almost guarantee you that sooner or later somebody is going to replace Wal Mart because they will be bigger and cheaper, provide more variety and may have an entirely new way of doing business.

Market demand rules. The more creative the better.

Welcome Jack. I also appreciate low prices, but the price has to be paid somewhere. And the employees are paying the price. I know first hand because we have a 20 year old working in a Super Wal-Mart and the environment there is barbaric.
I agree we shouldn't paint too rosy a picture of the old Mom and Pop stores, but at least their employees could make a career and sometimes retire from the business.

I agree about the price being paid somewhere. There are many places that pay heartless wages though so Wal Mart doesn't have the corner on that. It is very easy to say if people don't like it they can go someplace else. Well that is true but it is also awful. I believe. I would recommend my sons join the military before they worked at Wal Mart.

In fact, I did just that under similar circumstances about 20 years ago. The oldest was working at a super market "Big Bear." His younger brother had just graduated from high school and was fumbling around and I didn't like him living at home. I got them both to sign up. The oldest one joined the Air Force and retired from the Air Force last month. The youngest joined the Army and saw Germany for three years and got out, did an apprenticship as a union carpenter and has worked steady ever since earning good wages.

I believe Wal Mart and other low payers pretty much rely on people that are young with little or no work experience or older people that need something for extra money or part time. They have a big turnover in help.

These are all personnel considerations though. Wal Mart still outperforms Mom & Pop that's why they are Wall Mart and many Moms & Pops are history.

"I agree!"