Is it fair to arbitrarily increase punishment to your child?

Refreshing. Thank you.

Regards
DL

Well said.
I hope you are a theist. You will be sorry for thinking clearly.

Regards
DL

And parental stupidity.

When a parent sets the ----if you do not make your bed the punishment will be a 2 day grounding----if they were not bright enough to include the mental state of any refusal then that is your fault and not the fault of the child.

How would you work that out anyway.

Reasons for refusal.

Just not in the mood ---2 days grounded.
Would rather do something else---add a good belt.
Tells you to screw off after you bug him to do his bed and he still refuses---a good belt and a knife to the leg.
Where do arbitrary add ons end?

That parenting sounds like God's idea of free will. A threat.

Free will God style.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id...p;v=aUtSM2oVy_E

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id...p;v=Nv9IvCpiHxA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id...p;v=H0wSjJAsrAk

If God gave a hoot about the free will that He supposedly gave us, He sure is an Indian giver all over the O T where He tramples all over man’s free will to live as He went about killing us at Sodom and using genocide on us in Noah‘s day.

God is quite the immoral -------

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78H-tRFShiY

Regards
DL

Formerly dead atheists have reported some problems.

(for whatever its worth)





David

Sooooo....

this whole thread is about the fact you don't believe in God?

Why didn't ya just say so in the first place?

The world is arbitrary. The faster children learn this, the faster they can work through their existential crises.

answering the original question...

I could see raising the punishment bar IF the original requirement has been disregarded over and over and over.

If it isnt, or it is the result of.. lets say a rushed school morning (forgetting to make the bed) I would not raise the punishment.

Most children, at any age, do best with repetition. Things being exactly the same , knowing what to expect and why. Part of learning responsibility is thinking of the consequences ahead.
Thinking about (using your example) I will miss my favorite tv show if I leave my bed unmade..But i want to get to a party, to school on time, practice or what ever.

If there ARE no reasonable issues around the bed left unmade and it is just a constant sore spot, raise the bar.

I think the entire situation needs to be taken in to consideration before something gets changed and no, i dont think it is a bad thing to change the course of a punishment to make a point.

Except that.....it wasn't in answer to Your question.

Unfortunatley, the OP doesn't have any desire to have that question answered.

Absolutely. He had an agenda and was just trifling.

Obviously because I wanted some straight answers instead of a bob and weave.

Regards
DL

And those without arbitrary punishment will learn faster because they will trust their parents words more.

Regards
DL

Neither do I if it is known in advance but to just do it arbitrarily breaks your word and bond with the child.

That is the repetition you speak of.

Regards
DL

Time for me to come clean.

I asked for an opinion before hand, because my target, so to speak, are theists who basically agree that it is unfair to add punishments arbitrarily so that I can show them where their God does that immoral thing and thus either open their theist eyes to their unjust God. That and see how they respond in knowing that they do not follow their God and have broken the first commandment by putting their own common sense and or philosophy above God’s.
They are to emulate god in every way and in this, they will not. if they are thinkers, it will disturb them and cause them, I hope, to doubt the literal version of the Bible.
I do not care if they maintain their faith. It is literal reading that is evil and deadly to common sense as well as moral sense.

If I ask it in a religious way first, they will try to bob and weave away from what they themselves believe and do.
Theists are the only ones who can B S themselves into believing their own lies. They let their faith drown out what they know to be a truth.

-----------------------------------------

Think of the myth of Adam and Eve.

God’s warning and description of the consequences or punishment was that they would surely die. That was it.
We can argue that it was the death of their innocence or their physical death but regardless of which, it was only death that was indicated as the punishment or consequence. In fact, we know that the penalty of physical death was only imposed later so we should be able to conclude with confidence that it was the death of innocence that God was alluding to.

After the infraction He arbitrarily adds much more punishment than what He indicated in His covenant with Adam and Eve.

God can't break a promise yet He does.
My covenant I will not break, nor alter the word that has gone out of my lips.
—Psalm 89:34

Genesis has God definitely breaking His covenant.

14And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
17And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
18Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
19In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.
20And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.
21Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
22And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:
23Therefore the LORD God sent him forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken.
24So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life.

I call that an example of immoral parenting that no self respecting parent should follow. When they do not, they break the first commandment and rightfully place their moral views above God’s.

Regards
DL

Another thing I see all the time is parents just hauling off and punishing the kid. I never do that unless it is in the case of violating an important rule. If it is a less important rule I will give a warning statement long the lines of "next time this happens your punishment will be x" if there is something that is not being done or is not being done well enough then I say " you need to get x done by y, and if you do not your punishment will be z". And then I stick to it.

I am a firm believer in warnings and in giving the kid the opportunity to make corrections and to stay out of trouble. From what I have seen I would say that I am the exception, not the rule.

re the OP: of course it is wrong. Predictability and fairness are extremely important in parenting.

EDIT: I now see that this thread is a scam, however the parenting question was a good one.

"Obviously"

How is this obvious?

You want to know if people believe in God, just ask.
If you want to know if people think the God of the OT sets us up, why not ask?

Why the convoluted question about children, which you don't care about?


Since you did (finally) make your intentions clear, via your youtube video links, I'd be happy to give my opinion.

The examples given in the YouTubes are sophomoric, at best.

Using examples such as "you can't pick any color for your room, but if you don't pick orange (which is what I want) I will treat you badly for the rest of your life" has no real world application.

The example of paying your taxes is, I will say better.

Yes, you do have the free will to choose to pay your taxes or not, but if you choose not to, that will result in your paying a fine, or other penalities.
One is aware of those consequences before making their choice. The choices and penalites are well laid out, and do not change.

Anyone who is intelligent enough to read, or retain what is read to them, can see or hear that the God of the OT constantly vascilated in his decisions, meted out punishment and rewards in an arbitrary fashion, and changed horses in mid stream all the time.

This is because the bible was written by a bunch of people, who claimed, perhaps even believed they were being inspired by God, and wrote down all sorts of crazy ****.

Then, different people with the same claims and/or beliefs came along and changed this crazy **** into other crazy ****, the same....but different.

Hell, everybody knows that.

Now, would that have been so hard just to say or ask up front?

holy ****.

wow, you really had me going there for awhile. I'm sure glad you're coming clean.

How will this assist with resolving one's existential crisis?

Children are calmed with the knowledge that they live in a cocoon, that bad things from the outside will not be able to get them and as well that they the children will be prevented from doing something that causes them harm. For both functions children must trust the adults, and in order to trust the adults they must be able to predict adult behaviour. The easiest way to get to this point is to tell the kid something and then to follow through on it. It also helps if the parents know enough about the world so that when they say something what they say turns out to be true.

The trick, other than actually making this cacoon, is to right size it so that it is big enough so that the child can learn and grow with-in it. At this modern parents fail a great deal of the time. By early adolescents (11-14) this cocoon gets to feel like a jail, and the kids lose respect for their jailers, if it has been made too small.

So, you're on a mission, too... much like dumbwife. You two are crusaders.

Why are you interested/obsessed with "opening their eyes" - why not let them be? What's it to you what they think? How does it impact you?