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What does an omnipotent God need with a hell?

 
 
Reply Fri 13 Aug, 2010 02:49 pm
What does an omnipotent God need with a hell?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WYW_lPlekiQ

Main Entry: 1om·nip·o·tent 
1 often capitalized : almighty 1
2 : having virtually unlimited authority or influence <an omnipotent ruler>

A loving God, with unlimited influence, at judgment time, would have no trouble influencing a soul to believe and repent.
That would make the following quote true.

2 Peter 3:9 KJ
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If God is somehow not able to change the attitude or ideas of the soul, the reason for punishment, then to sent it to eternal torture would serve no purpose and that would mean that punishment would be immoral and no moral God would ever do so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF6I5VSZVqc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZM3FXlLMug

For those who believe in everlasting punishment I would ask.

What does an omnipotent God need with a hell?

Regards
DL
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Type: Question • Score: 0 • Views: 2,642 • Replies: 71
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Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Aug, 2010 02:53 pm
@Greatest I am,
God neither needs or has a hell.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Aug, 2010 02:55 pm
Fear works wonderfully well.
Pronounce
 
  0  
Reply Fri 13 Aug, 2010 03:21 pm
@Greatest I am,
A place to store all those who can't stand to be near Him.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Aug, 2010 03:25 pm
@Pronounce,
And since "Him" doesn't exist, we'll all meet in "paradise."



"Paradise" = dead
Pronounce
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Aug, 2010 04:53 pm
@cicerone imposter,
If he's not there I wouldn't call it Paradise, but if you want to call it that, then you're welcome to your definition. It's just in my case I've always thought of Paradise as a good place to be, and not some place Hell like.
Pronounce
 
  1  
Reply Fri 13 Aug, 2010 06:02 pm
@Greatest I am,
I just assumed you weren't serious, and so I didn't give you serious answers, but for those who may read this and be truly seeking an answer I'll say the following:

In regards to the Star Trek episode shown:
Quote:
Although Roddenberry was raised as a Southern Baptist, he instead considered himself a humanist and agnostic. He saw religion as the cause of many wars and human suffering.[18] Brannon Braga has said that Roddenberry made it known to the writers of Star Trek and Star Trek: The Next Generation that religion and mystical thinking were not to be included, and that in Roddenberry's vision of Earth's future, everyone was an atheist and better for it.[19] However, Roddenberry was clearly not punctilious in this regard, and some religious references exist in various episodes of both series under his watch. The original series episodes "Bread and Circuses", "Who Mourns for Adonais?", and "The Ultimate Computer", and the Star Trek: The Next Generation episodes "Data's Day" and "The Next Phase" are examples. On the other hand, "Metamorphosis", "The Empath", "Who Watches the Watchers", and several others reflect somewhat, his Humanist/Agnostic views.

Given that writers were instructed to write scripts to be atheistic it can only be concluded that any episodes that included a God, or a god-like, character where not to be taken as a serious view of theism per any major religion.

In regards to literary sources including the Bible and a dictionary: My spiritual journey has led me to the logical conclusion that God does in fact exist. With that in mind any biblical, logical, or illogical reasoning that conflicts with that truth there must be an error with the supposed conclusion. In my mind, while logic is great it does not supersede the nature of God, so any logic that is in conflict with Truth is flawed. Biblical scholars come from several fundamental backgrounds. It is from this basis that they use exegetical tools to interpret biblical meaning. Obviously since the Bible is a record of events and scripture it behooves people who desire to know the truth to use good exegetical practices. And just as obvious not everyone does. A wise person will do their own research and listen to many voices. I recommend dissenting voices as well as those that match up to ones' own beliefs.

As far as the speakers claim that religion is used for control that is true. And this is easy to understand from a sociological perspective. Religion is an institution which is culturally based. The main factor of control is culture. Through psychological controlling avenues such as peer-pressure, folkways, morays, laws, and dogma people are made to conform so as to be a part of the group. This fact is just an aspect of human socialization, and religion is just one of several such institutions that behave this way.

It is a fact that none is so blind as he who would not see. I can throw down pages upon pages of logic, but none of that really matters. My experience with the supernatural realm wasn't discovered through logic. The empirical evidence that I have was given to me by God starting when I was young, but I didn't recognize until I was about 11 years old. From that point till now I've grown to discover God in new and amazing ways. But that is for me. It's my spiritual journey, but unlike a physical journey with pictures and geopositioning, I have nothing to hand anyone or show them physically. I don't expect many to believe me, but a few do, and I recognize the signs when the Holy Spirit is working on their heart. I've seen people change before my eyes, and come to their own spiritual realization of God. This may not happen to you, the reader, in this life time, but I know without doubt you will have the opportunity to know of God for yourself. I believe this, because it is who He is to make known His nature (part of which is Love).

The question "What does an omnipotent God need with a hell?" incorrectly assumes that He has needs and that hell is part of His design. These two assumptions are incorrect. God, better yet, the Supreme Being needs nothing, and hell was never his creation. But it is a creation and so as an omnipotent creator of all things it could be viewed by some to be a place of his doing, but here is the fact people who assume this have not considered. The Supreme Being has intentionally limited his nature so as to save us from the consequence of our sin nature being exposed to his glory. (As an example of what would happen if the limits were not in place think of joining matter and anti-matter together except that it would be more like trying to join darkness with light.) In doing so there were things created (like Hell) that were never his intention nor a part of the original design. Why did he give his creation the ability to create hell knowing what would happen? To answer this one only has to learn what it means to love someone so completely that you're willing to humble yourself to the point of removing power differential between you and the person you love. True love between an all-powerful being and that of his creation could not exist without the removal of the power differential.

In conclusion if one lives life by reasoning and logic then it is only possible to known as much truth as logic and reasoning will provide for you. If this is satisfactory for someone then I truly wish them well, because I realize that it isn't my jurisdiction to dictate the course of each person's spiritual journey. As far as myself I know that logic hasn't, wouldn't work for me, and that is why I've chosen the path I've chosen.
RickLannoye
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2010 06:04 am
@Greatest I am,
You've made an excellent point! And in spite of the propaganda to the contrary often regurgitated by Psuedo-Evangelicals, the God that Jesus taught about would never, ever resort to hurting people for any reason.
I've actually written an entire book on this topic--Hell? No! Why You Can Be Certain There's No Such Place As Hell, (for anyone interested, you can get a free ecopy of Did Jesus Believe in Hell?, one of the most compelling chapters in my book at www.thereisnohell.com), but if I may, let me share just one of the many points I make in it to explain why.

If one is willing to look, there's substantial evidence contained in the gospels to show that Jesus opposed the idea of Hell. For example, in Luke 9:51-56, is a story about his great disappointment with his disciples when they actually suggested imploring God to rain FIRE on a village just because they had rejected him. His response: "You don't know what spirit is inspiring this kind of talk!" Presumably, it was NOT the Holy Spirit. He went on, trying to explain how he had come to save, heal and relieve suffering, not be the CAUSE of it.

So it only stands to reason that this same Jesus, who was appalled at the very idea of burning a few people, for a few horrific minutes until they were dead, could never, ever burn billions of people for an eternity!
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2010 01:10 pm
@Pronounce,
Pronounce, We had no choice to be born, and no choice on when we will die. Life, as we know it on planet earth, is a struggle for over 90% born. Some die at birth; it's not their choice; it's more nature than assigning such quick end of life to any god.

Most people who grow old begin to suffer from health problems; some even welcome death to find peace from pain and suffering.

For the majority of humans, death is paradise.
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2010 01:23 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
Fear works wonderfully well.


Even if the fear is groundless
0 Replies
 
BillRM
 
  0  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2010 01:28 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
For the majority of humans, death is paradise.


What a cheerful person you are.

I hope no one will hire you for a suicide prevention hot line!
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2010 02:21 pm
@BillRM,
I am a cheerful person. I live a privileged life that is financial security, no mortgage, and world travel to keep active in retirement. I probably live better and happier than over 90% living on this planet today. I have friends all around the world, and keep in touch with them.

BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2010 05:13 pm
@cicerone imposter,
If you are cheerful I would hate to meet a person who is not so!!!!!!
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2010 05:40 pm
@Greatest I am,
Quote:
What does an omnipotent God need with a hell?


Evolutionists... You got some other way to cook em?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sat 14 Aug, 2010 05:51 pm
@BillRM,
I guess your comprehension concerning numbers escapes you; "I'm probably happier than 90%..."

Have you ever met me? No!
BillRM
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2010 04:32 am
@cicerone imposter,
No need to have met you with the idea of your that most humans now on the planet would be better off killing themselves.

Such a person is not a happy person in my opinion.
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2010 10:11 am
@Intrepid,
Intrepid wrote:

God neither needs or has a hell.


What does He do with sinners and non believers ?

Regards
DL
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2010 10:12 am
@BillRM,
Show me where I stated
Quote:
the idea of your that most humans now on the planet would be better off killing themselves.


That's your idea, because you can't find such a quote from me.
0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2010 10:14 am
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

Fear works wonderfully well.


This reply I liked.

"Cherubim Wrote:
I do not believe in Hell, but I think it was just a scare tactic at first. It has since turned into something else. However, Hell does continue to motivate some individuals to be kind and self-less. Of course, being kind and self-less just to keep from going to Hell is kind of missing the point. If you need the threat of burning for eternity (or whatever your version of hell is) just to do good in this world you're a sad sad person."

Regards
DL

0 Replies
 
Greatest I am
 
  1  
Reply Sun 15 Aug, 2010 10:16 am
@Pronounce,
Pronounce wrote:

A place to store all those who can't stand to be near Him.


That would depend on how you define God.

If it is the genocidal maniac and His friends, separation is a blessing and not a curse.

Regards
DL
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