3
   

does reality exist before Human existence and thinking exist ?

 
 
north
 
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 12:44 pm

is not obvious that in order for any living thing we need the Universe to exist first ?
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 3 • Views: 2,155 • Replies: 57
No top replies

 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 12:48 pm
@north,
north wrote:


is not obvious that in order for any living thing we need the Universe to exist first ?


Well, astronomers tell us that the Moon is at least four and a half billion years old, and human beings are less than a half a billion years old. So, you do the math.
north
 
  0  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 12:52 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy wrote:

north wrote:


is not obvious that in order for any living thing we need the Universe to exist first ?


Well, astronomers tell us that the Moon is at least four and a half billion years old, and human beings are less than a half a billion years old. So, you do the math.


true

yet there some that think there is no reality beyond our Human awarness of reality

inotherwords Humanity creates reality

Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 12:57 pm
AHOY SAILOP
0 Replies
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 12:58 pm
@north,
Why Q
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 12:58 pm
@north,
north wrote:


is not obvious that in order for any living thing we need the Universe to exist first ?
0 Replies
 
north
 
  0  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 01:13 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep wrote:

Why Q


because some think and do think in this day and age that reality is created by us

or worse that reality may or may-not exist
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 01:15 pm
@north,
south korea
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 01:16 pm
Hallo Mijn Naam ISS
0 Replies
 
north
 
  2  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 01:17 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep wrote:

south korea


well that response is informative
0 Replies
 
Pepijn Sweep
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 01:18 pm
i understand not obvious
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 01:23 pm
@Pepijn Sweep,
Pepijn Sweep wrote:

i understand not obvious


so whats your point then ?
0 Replies
 
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 01:40 pm
@north,
north wrote:

kennethamy wrote:

north wrote:


is not obvious that in order for any living thing we need the Universe to exist first ?


Well, astronomers tell us that the Moon is at least four and a half billion years old, and human beings are less than a half a billion years old. So, you do the math.


true

yet there some that think there is no reality beyond our Human awarness of reality

inotherwords Humanity creates reality




Well, if they think that, I suggest they get the facts, and then that they do the math. And if they are rational, they won't think that any more.
kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 01:42 pm
@north,
north wrote:

Pepijn Sweep wrote:

Why Q


because some think and do think in this day and age that reality is created by us

or worse that reality may or may-not exist


People have all kinds of irrational ideas. Some may even think that the Moon is made of Cream of Wheat. So what. They may just be off their medication.
0 Replies
 
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 01:48 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy wrote:

north wrote:

kennethamy wrote:

north wrote:


is not obvious that in order for any living thing we need the Universe to exist first ?


Well, astronomers tell us that the Moon is at least four and a half billion years old, and human beings are less than a half a billion years old. So, you do the math.


true

yet there some that think there is no reality beyond our Human awarness of reality

inotherwords Humanity creates reality




Well, if they think that, I suggest they get the facts, and then that they do the math. And if they are rational, they won't think that any more.


hopefully

kennethamy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 03:10 pm
@north,
north wrote:

kennethamy wrote:

north wrote:

kennethamy wrote:

north wrote:


is not obvious that in order for any living thing we need the Universe to exist first ?


Well, astronomers tell us that the Moon is at least four and a half billion years old, and human beings are less than a half a billion years old. So, you do the math.


true

yet there some that think there is no reality beyond our Human awarness of reality

inotherwords Humanity creates reality




Well, if they think that, I suggest they get the facts, and then that they do the math. And if they are rational, they won't think that any more.


hopefully




Who is being hopeful? The Roman philosopher, Cicero told us that nothing is so absurd that no philosopher has said it, and things have not changed much since then. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some posters who thought that although the Moon is 4.5 billion years old, but human beings .5 billion years old, that the Moon was created by human beings. Philosophers can easily hold beliefs that contradict each other. They are masters of cognitive dissonance. For example, then can believe both that time is unreal, and also that they can be late for an appointment with a dentist. Go figure.
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 03:18 pm
@kennethamy,
kennethamy wrote:

north wrote:

kennethamy wrote:

north wrote:

kennethamy wrote:

north wrote:


is not obvious that in order for any living thing we need the Universe to exist first ?


Well, astronomers tell us that the Moon is at least four and a half billion years old, and human beings are less than a half a billion years old. So, you do the math.


true

yet there some that think there is no reality beyond our Human awarness of reality

inotherwords Humanity creates reality




Well, if they think that, I suggest they get the facts, and then that they do the math. And if they are rational, they won't think that any more.


hopefully




Who is being hopeful? The Roman philosopher, Cicero told us that nothing is so absurd that no philosopher has said it, and things have not changed much since then. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some posters who thought that although the Moon is 4.5 billion years old, but human beings .5 billion years old, that the Moon was created by human beings. Philosophers can easily hold beliefs that contradict each other. They are masters of cognitive dissonance. For example, then can believe both that time is unreal, and also that they can be late for an appointment with a dentist. Go figure.


if sir Sanford Fleming did not order the globe , divide the earth into sections then you be late or early

that doesn't make time real , but the reality of arbitarily giving different points on Earth a non-standard for time , confusing
0 Replies
 
ABYA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 03:53 pm
@north,
north wrote:


is not obvious that in order for any living thing we need the Universe to exist first ?

In this world,yes.
The order of creation is like a pyramid.
The base is the inanimate, The oldest and the most mass.
The second layer is the vegetative, younger and less mass than the inanimate. and feeds of the inanimate.
The 3rd layer of the pyramid is the animate, younger and less mass than the vegetative and feeds of the vegetative and to some extent the inanimate.
The 4th layer is the Human level, youger and less mass than the animate and feeds off the animate, vegeatative and inanimate levels.

The 5th layer is the tip of the pyramid and is the desire for Spirituality., younger and less mass than the Human level and it feeds of all the lower levels, but as its dealing in Spirituality it see's these lower levels as something different to how we perceive them in corporeality. It see's them more as desires.
For example, a rock equals a desire to stick together, a desire for unity.
Studying the whole of Creation as desires within us rather than looking at the physical expression of creation, helps us make much more sense of the Bible, which was written by Spiritual people, and we can see whats meant by such things as rape, pilage and murder.
This is how its openly described in Kabbalah, which only speaks of the spiritual interpretation of creation. And this is how its secretly understood in gnosis, by those who have an understanding of scripture.
north
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 04:08 pm
@ABYA,
ABYA wrote:

north wrote:


is not obvious that in order for any living thing we need the Universe to exist first ?

In this world,yes.
The order of creation is like a pyramid.
The base is the inanimate, The oldest and the most mass.
The second layer is the vegetative, younger and less mass than the inanimate. and feeds of the inanimate.
The 3rd layer of the pyramid is the animate, younger and less mass than the vegetative and feeds of the vegetative and to some extent the inanimate.
The 4th layer is the Human level, youger and less mass than the animate and feeds off the animate, vegeatative and inanimate levels.

The 5th layer is the tip of the pyramid and is the desire for Spirituality., younger and less mass than the Human level and it feeds of all the lower levels, but as its dealing in Spirituality it see's these lower levels as something different to how we perceive them in corporeality. It see's them more as desires.
For example, a rock equals a desire to stick together, a desire for unity.
Studying the whole of Creation as desires within us rather than looking at the physical expression of creation, helps us make much more sense of the Bible, which was written by Spiritual people, and we can see whats meant by such things as rape, pilage and murder.
This is how its openly described in Kabbalah, which only speaks of the spiritual interpretation of creation. And this is how its secretly understood in gnosis, by those who have an understanding of scripture.


but any scripture by any religion has only delt with the dynamics of Human Beings being amoungst other Human beings , and nothing else

religions are a way to live with others and to revere god

religions have nothing to offer in thoughts of the before

reality its self

ABYA
 
  1  
Reply Mon 12 Jul, 2010 04:27 pm
@north,
north wrote:


but any scripture by any religion has only delt with the dynamics of Human Beings being amoungst other Human beings , and nothing else

religions are a way to live with others and to revere god

religions have nothing to offer in thoughts of the before

reality its self



This is true of mainstream religions, but not of authentic Kabbalah and Gnosis.
In Kabbalah, Moses is not a person. Moses equals a very high level of the desire for spirituality, Egypt is understood as meaning egoism and Pharoah is the epitome of Egoism. Theres nothing physical in the teachings at all.
In Gnosis, Christ is seen as the highest level of the desire for spitituality, the cross is egoism. again theres nothing physical in the understanding you gain through Gnosis.
Neither talk of the dynamics between human relations with each other, but only about the desire for Spitituality and the effects the light has on this desire.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

How can we be sure? - Discussion by Raishu-tensho
DOES NOTHING EXIST??? - Question by mark noble
Proof of nonexistence of free will - Discussion by litewave
morals and ethics, how are they different? - Question by existential potential
Destroy My Belief System, Please! - Discussion by Thomas
Star Wars in Philosophy. - Discussion by Logicus
Existence of Everything. - Discussion by Logicus
Is it better to be feared or loved? - Discussion by Black King
 
  1. Forums
  2. » does reality exist before Human existence and thinking exist ?
Copyright © 2020 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 02/19/2020 at 05:09:49