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Why liberals should love the Second Amendment

 
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 01:06 am
@farmerman,
David wrote:
The litigation is defined by THE PLEADINGS
and those issues that u mentioned were not before the court.
farmerman wrote:
Then why did the court bring it up?
I suspect that it was a social matter,
at the behest of Roberts, CJ & maybe Kennedy,J
to mollify, soothe n console the losers,
but all of the judges KNOW that when those issues are ACTUALLY litigated before the court,
thay have an ethical duty to begin consideration with a blank slate -- not have their minds made up b4 trial of the appeal.





David
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 04:52 am
@OmSigDAVID,
Seems that several folks, including the ACLU, consider the second Amendment ;as a COLLECTIVE, not an INDIVIDUAL right. Perhaps this will be a talking point some day. I dont wanna make more out of it because Im leaning both ways

1Im a gun owner and an enthusiast of hunting

2However, gun crimes are washing over our society with a benevolent ppatriarchal oversight by our courts.

SO, eventually, (maybe not in my life) this issue of Individual v Colective rights may be adjudicated , before we shoot each other all up.
joefromchicago
 
  2  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 08:16 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
SO, eventually, (maybe not in my life) this issue of Individual v Colective rights may be adjudicated , before we shoot each other all up.

That issue has already been decided in Heller and McDonald. It's an individual right.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 08:24 am
@joefromchicago,
I guess Im being too specific here based upon ACLU preferences ,Seems to me that the USSC left it kind of hanging in Heller by stating that some simple controls could be enacted without too much trouble.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 08:38 am
@farmerman,
That's true, but then individual rights can still have reasonable limitations placed upon them. For instance, although the first amendment guarantees freedom of speech, we still have defamation laws.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 09:26 am
@joefromchicago,
however, it seems that these simple laws are unobtainable. I mean, the simple law that limitsthenumber of guns one can purchase PWER MONTH , or the law that would require me to report a stolen gun, were ALL voted down.
joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 09:54 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:

however, it seems that these simple laws are unobtainable.

That's a practical limit, not a constitutional one.
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 12:00 pm
@joefromchicago,
farmerman wrote:
SO, eventually, (maybe not in my life) this issue of Individual v Colective rights may be adjudicated,
before we shoot each other all up.
joefromchicago wrote:
That issue has already been decided in Heller and McDonald. It's an individual right.
That 's right; the HELLER case was decided 5 to 4,
but the finding that the 2nd Amendment protects an Individual Right was 9 to O.
NONE of the Justices supported the concept of a "collective right."





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  0  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 12:48 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
I guess Im being too specific here based upon ACLU preferences,
OmSigDAVID wrote:
ACLU petitions court to get man's guns returned from Broward Sheriff's Office
Police say Robert Weinstein, bereft over late wife's missing remains,
"wanted to blow his head off"
July 15, 2010|By Linda Trischitta, Sun Sentinel

American Civil Liberties Union is petitioning a court to help
an 85-year-old man get his guns back from the Broward Sheriff's Office.

Yes, you read that right.

In what may be the first time, the ACLU says, it is advocating
on behalf of a gun owner to get his weapons back and
they're doing so free of charge.

That the ACLU, a long-time target of conservatives' scorn,
is supporting gun ownership is "a breath of fresh air," said Marion P. Hammer,
board member of the National Rifle Association.

"It's all very interesting that the ACLU has now decided that all
of the rights are worth defending, and it's a welcome change,"
said Ms. Hammer, a Florida lobbyist for the NRA and its former president.

Is this new alliance a sign of the apocalypse?

Not really, says Fort Lauderdale attorney Barry Butin, a cooperating attorney
for the ACLU of Florida's Broward Chapter who is representing the gun owner,
Pompano Beach retiree Robert Weinstein.

Two recent U.S. Supreme Court decisions have affirmed
the right to maintain guns in the home.

"Under the Second Amendment, he has a right to have his guns
in his house. He's not a convicted felon," Butin said. "It is unusual
for the ACLU, but the ACLU supports all constitutional rights.
We don't pick and choose."

Brandon Hensler, the ACLU of Florida's communications director in Miami,
said: "This is the first time I know of in the ACLU's 90-year history
that we have advocated on behalf of a citizen to have their weapons
returned from law enforcement."

Weinstein, a retired bar and restaurant owner from Hartford, Conn.,
had his weapons seized in February after Dana, his wife of 61 years, died.
He told the Broward Medical Examiner's Office that he wanted
to "blow his head off," according to a sheriff deputy's report.

He said he was upset because three weeks after Mrs. Weinstein died,
her ashes still hadn't shown up at the funeral home that was to bury them.

Weinstein's call to the medical examiner prompted a visit from a
sheriff's deputy, who took the widower to a hospital for evaluation.

Weinstein said he agreed to surrender his Colt semi-automatic .25 caliber
pistol and his Wesson .357 revolver, along with ammunition and holsters,
for safekeeping after authorities insisted on it.




0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 12:59 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
Seems that several folks, including the ACLU,
consider the second Amendment; as a COLLECTIVE, not an INDIVIDUAL right.
Perhaps this will be a talking point some day.
I dont wanna make more out of it because Im leaning both ways

1 Im a gun owner and an enthusiast of hunting
Yeah, but u r not loyal to us. U 'd drag the rest of us down, if u coud.



farmerman wrote:
2 However, gun crimes are washing over our society
with a benevolent ppatriarchal oversight by our courts.
Thus proving the victims' active NEED of self defense, on a life-or-death basis.

farmerman wrote:
SO, eventually, (maybe not in my life) this issue of Individual v Colective rights may be adjudicated,
before we shoot each other all up.
Farmer, just speaking for MYSELF here, I am not going to:
"shoot each other all up" depending on how any court rules.

Do u have that in your plans ??





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 01:08 pm
@joefromchicago,
joefromchicago wrote:
That's true, but then individual rights can still have reasonable limitations placed upon them.
For instance, although the first amendment guarantees freedom of speech, we still have defamation laws.
That 's true.

We might note, incidentally, that considerations qua limitation
of the right to bear arms have only been set forth
in obiter dicta; those issues were not before the Court.

Those limiting statements have no precedential value.





David
0 Replies
 
OmSigDAVID
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Jul, 2010 01:17 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
however, it seems that these simple laws are unobtainable.
That 's AMERICA to me!




farmerman wrote:
I mean, the simple law that limits the number of guns one can purchase PWER MONTH,
or the law that would require me to report a stolen gun, were ALL voted down.
HOORAY!!! FREEDOM PREVAILS IN AMERICA !





David
0 Replies
 
 

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