A sustainable large-scale sociopolitcal structure?

@JBeukema,

JBeukema;67269 wrote:

So, it seems that democracy has been shown to be incapable to surviving human greed. Socialism seems to work only with small isolated groups, where s no real choice. Large-scale experiments are unable to survive the rise of tyrants. Is there any system that can united large masses of persons and be truly sustainable, or is the nature of Man's heart truly such that he and his neighbor can never achieve a lasting collaboration??
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There is only one way, in my opinion, that man can peacefully survive and that is through unity. The society would have to have the same religion, same political belief, same race, everyone would have to be the same. Diversity is the root of controversy.

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@Ares cv,

The only system that could do so is called a "Truth-based society". Are these Truth based socities possible? NO!

It is not greed, it is not black hearts etc. It is simply the human inability to recognise and embrace the Forbidden Truth.

Yes, capitalism, socialism, etc are all basically the same thing : lie-based societies.

In reality, humans are too mentall deranged to even survive extinction, which will almost certainly occur within 50-100 years.

Ares : "There is only one way, in my opinion, that man can peacefully survive and that is through unity. The society would have to have the same religion, same political belief, same race, everyone would have to be the same. Diversity is the root of controversy."

Wrong. It is precisely people who think like you who cannot handle diversity that make the controveries in your head seem real. The idea of which religion would be official is wrong.

ALL versions of the god-myth are illegitimate because they are based on lies.

1 Reply

@Seer Travis Truman,

Seer Travis Truman;68036 wrote:

In reality, humans are too mentall deranged to even survive extinction, which will almost certainly occur within 50-100 years.

What evidence to you use to support this?

Religous people of one form or another have be 'prophercising' this for 1000's of years. Do you know something they do not?

1 Reply

@Numpty,

Numpty;68037 wrote:

What evidence to you use to support this?
Religous people of one form or another have be 'prophercising' this for 1000's of years. Do you know something they do not?

I cannot be sure, that is why I said "almost certainly". There are many scenarios, but I do not claim to know the answer. I dont need to tell you what I think of religeous people's claims by now.

Here are some possible causes :
A) Technology (transportation) and unnatural movement patterns, combined with unnatural large group numbers, make spreading deseases much faster and dangerous. We have seen the swine flu quickly spread across continents that thousands of years ago would not have happened.

B) Outer-space threat (high impact) etc.

C) My favourite : War. If China and America, or other large powers, clashed with technology today, it is likely that humans could be either wiped out, or crippled. Both a wonderful scenarios

D) War in future with bio weapons or other advanced technology.

E) Some kind of cosmic event.

F) Mass mental breakdown.

As the for state of your minds, well, there is nothing I can do to convince you crazy humans of what you are.

1 Reply

@Seer Travis Truman,

Seer Travis Truman;68041 wrote:

Here are some possible causes :
A) Technology (transportation) and unnatural movement patterns, combined with unnatural large group numbers, make spreading deseases much faster and dangerous. We have seen the swine flu quickly spread across continents that thousands of years ago would not have happened.

Whilst in terms of spreading a disease you are correct. The ability of any given virus to wipe out the entire human species is highly unlikely. Even if it is particularly virulent disease there will always be those who are not as suceptable/ or even immune. HIV being a case in point there are prostitutes in Africa who are immune to the virus

NATURAL IMMUNITY TO HIV

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B) Outer-space threat (high impact) etc.

This is specualtion, we all know it could come at any time. However more and more money is being spent on scaning the skies.

Code Yellow: MITs Radical Asteroid Impact Prevention Plan

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C) My favourite : War. If China and America, or other large powers, clashed with technology today, it is likely that humans could be either wiped out, or crippled. Both a wonderful scenarios.

Unlikely, as you have stated these countries/ societies need the people to remain slaves. No point killing them all off, who are they going to control?

Ecenomically this is highly un likely as well. The world as a unit is far too intertwined for there to be a global War anytime soon. Google it, see how many wars are going on on this planet right now. I mean country to country, not fighting terrorists.

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D) War in future with bio weapons or other advanced technology.

Speculation again

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E) Some kind of cosmic event.

see answer to B. if that is the type of event you refer to. If not I will be happy repost.

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F) Mass mental breakdown.

Speculation again

Where is the evidence you have that supports your speculation, guess, hypothosis?

This looks like what you 'HOPE' will happen in the next 50-100. There is very little substance to your speculation, unless of course you have some. I would be happy to take a look at it.

1 Reply

@Numpty,

Reply to Numpty :

Whilst in terms of spreading a disease you are correct. The ability of any given virus to wipe out the entire human species is highly unlikely. Even if it is particularly virulent disease there will always be those who are not as suceptable/ or even immune. HIV being a case in point there are prostitutes in Africa who are immune to the virus

A virus could do so, whether it is a human-engineered one or a very strong and new type of virus. The virus itself does not need to kill everyone.

This is specualtion, we all know it could come at any time. However more and more money is being spent on scaning the skies.
It is a possibility.

Unlikely, as you have stated these countries/ societies need the people to remain slaves. No point killing them all off, who are they going to control?
Societal leaders will continue the insane war ritual. With ever new technologies, it is extremely unlikely that humanity will survive its mental disorders that cause wars.

Ecenomically this is highly un likely as well. The world as a unit is far too intertwined for there to be a global War anytime soon. Google it, see how many wars are going on on this planet right now. I mean country to country, not fighting terrorists.
There is no such legitimate thing as "terrorists". When america attacks another country, such as iraq or afghanistan, it is invoking the insane war ritual. America simply labels the so-called enemy as terrorists to dehumanise the enemy, and afghanistan does likewise.
Economics cannot stop the insane war ritual. america would spend any amount of money on the insane war ritual. Look at WWII - countries were going broke...but they still would not stop. Look at the costs of the wars that american societal leaders start today.

War is almost certain to eradicate humans within the next 50-100 years.

Speculation again
That 'speculation' is the logical conclusion of both the ongoing commitment to the insane war ritual, and to the continued development of technology.

see answer to B. if that is the type of event you refer to. If not I will be happy repost.
Same as (b), but on large scales.

Seer TT "Mass mental breakdown. "
Speculation again
Currently, humanity is highly insane, deranged and Truth-hating. Humanity cannot stop itself from mentally devolving further. A race without integrity, without mental integrity, ultimately should not survive.

Where is the evidence you have that supports your speculation, guess, hypothosis?
What is evidence? You can't prove the Truth to you. The Truth is now, what is True at this time. The Truth of the insane war ritual, of human deragement.

This looks like what you 'HOPE' will happen in the next 50-100.
It will almost certainly occur within 50-100 years. And yes, extintion of humanity is long overdue.

There is very little substance to your speculation, unless of course you have some. I would be happy to take a look at it.
The best resource for Forbidden Truth "substance" is :
The Manifesto of Forbidden Truth: A devastating dissection of the evil and insane societal myths, lies, rituals, and perversions of early 21st century humanity.

**Note : I do not run this website, nor contribute to it in any way.

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@JBeukema,

No society except some sort of religious dictatorship could possibly survive on an abstraction like 'truth' - a product, by the way, of essentially religious thinking, be it 'forbidden' or otherwise. From the development of property on all societies have contained huge contradictions, class contradictions especially, which make them essentially unstable. Small monastic kinds of community which share property and some early socialist experiments last quite well, but until the world moves to eliminate personal property (beyond toothbrushes and the like) there will never be anything stable, anywhere, ever. Capitalism is hugely revolutionary, and has been from the start. It will almost certainly do for us all, but it has for the first time made human freedom from want possible, if people learn somehow to take it over.

1 Reply

@kynaston,

Reply to knyston :

No society except some sort of religious dictatorship could possibly survive on an abstraction like 'truth' - a product, by the way, of essentially religious thinking, be it 'forbidden' or otherwise.

You are indeed a victim-creation of your society. Truth is pure and 100% correct. It is NOT religious. The things that society and it's citizen-slaves call "Truth" are actually lies. They are NOT Truth.
To suggest that society should not be based on Truth and reality is insane.

From the development of property on all societies have contained huge contradictions, class contradictions especially, which make them essentially unstable.
The major problems with societies (modern and otherwise) is nothing to do with property. It is to do with the fact that they are all based on lies.

Small monastic kinds of community which share property and some early socialist experiments last quite well, but until the world moves to eliminate personal property (beyond toothbrushes and the like) there will never be anything stable, anywhere, ever.
The only way to have any from of stable, sane and rational utopian society is via the Forbidden Truth.

Capitalism is hugely revolutionary, and has been from the start.
Incorrect, capitalism is just another version of a lie-based societal construct, just as christianity and muslim are both versions of the god myth.

It will almost certainly do for us all, but it has for the first time made human freedom from want possible, if people learn somehow to take it over.
There is no mental freedom for the 99.99999% or so of citizen-slaves in any society. The idea that capitalism gives you freedom is ridiculous, and to suggest that a system that is obsessed with material sales free it's citizen-slaves from want is ridiculous.

2 Replies

@Seer Travis Truman,

Seer Travis Truman;68189 wrote:

Reply to knyston :

No society except some sort of religious dictatorship could possibly survive on an abstraction like 'truth' - a product, by the way, of essentially religious thinking, be it 'forbidden' or otherwise.

You are indeed a victim-creation of your society. Truth is pure and 100% correct. It is NOT religious. The things that society and it's citizen-slaves call "Truth" are actually lies. They are NOT Truth.
To suggest that society should not be based on Truth and reality is insane.

From the development of property on all societies have contained huge contradictions, class contradictions especially, which make them essentially unstable.
The major problems with societies (modern and otherwise) is nothing to do with property. It is to do with the fact that they are all based on lies.

Small monastic kinds of community which share property and some early socialist experiments last quite well, but until the world moves to eliminate personal property (beyond toothbrushes and the like) there will never be anything stable, anywhere, ever.
The only way to have any from of stable, sane and rational utopian society is via the Forbidden Truth.

Capitalism is hugely revolutionary, and has been from the start.
Incorrect, capitalism is just another version of a lie-based societal construct, just as christianity and muslim are both versions of the god myth.

It will almost certainly do for us all, but it has for the first time made human freedom from want possible, if people learn somehow to take it over.
There is no mental freedom for the 99.99999% or so of citizen-slaves in any society. The idea that capitalism gives you freedom is ridiculous, and to suggest that a system that is obsessed with material sales free it's citizen-slaves from want is ridiculous.

Typical pharisee sermon, irrelevant to the real world.

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@Seer Travis Truman,

Hmmm, no substantial evidence then, just guess work.

Ah well debate over.

1 Reply

@Numpty,

Numpty;68203 wrote:

Hmmm, no substantial evidence then, just guess work.

Ah well debate over.

For you it is always over when you start posting. Your attention span clearly does not transgrees over to the last page.

Why would I even "require" evidence? Not all statements "require" evidence to back them. Who says I do not have evidence? So far, you have not made any point that is relevant that I can respond to. Therefore, since you have no point, no position, what is the evidence going to be related to? Nothing you say makes any sense.

1 Reply

@Seer Travis Truman,

Seer Travis Truman;68205 wrote:

For you it is always over when you start posting. Your attention span clearly does not transgrees over to the last page.

Why would I even "require" evidence? Not all statements "require" evidence to back them. Who says I do not have evidence? So far, you have not made any point that is relevant that I can respond to. Therefore, since you have no point, no position, what is the evidence going to be related to? Nothing you say makes any sense.

OOOOOOOOOO!!

Who rattled your cage?

I was refering to our discussion, not the one you are currently having Kynaston

Generally when you make a statement you back it up with some sort of Evidence/ Theory. Then we debate it. All you have produced is opinion.

I say you have not produced any, though I am happy to look over any you produce.

Your original statements are what YOU WANT to happen, nothing else really.

You shouldn't get so uptight when people disagree with you, send you to an early grave that will.

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@JBeukema,

Quote:

So, it seems that democracy has been shown to be incapable to surviving human greed. Socialism seems to work only with small isolated groups, where s no real choice. Large-scale experiments are unable to survive the rise of tyrants. Is there any system that can united large masses of persons and be truly sustainable, or is the nature of Man's heart truly such that he and his neighbor can never achieve a lasting collaboration??

IMO we lack enough knowledge about ourselves. We take for granted so much, that it makes us oblivious to the mystery of being. The reason why we can't live up to our potential together, is because of our difficulty in dealing with ourselves. I believe, just like S.T.T, that there is a truth, a finality, but I, at least, am in no condition to conceive of what that might be. I disagree that it must be apparent to everyone simultaneously for us to productively co-exist, what we do need, are clear straightforward objectives, goals, and a mix of complete honesty, tolerance and responsibility.

Just to be clear, I am only honestly replying to the question at hand, I am not suggesting that we apply to our society what I said. People do not know that they want and need change. So for the time being, all I can advise is patience, and to reach for the core of our existence, privately, not through any manner known or even reasonable, because hell we've tried pretty much every reasonable approach, and it has failed us miserably so far.

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@JBeukema,

Quote:

Why would I even "require" evidence? Not all statements "require" evidence to back them. Who says I do not have evidence? So far, you have not made any point that is relevant that I can respond to. Therefore, since you have no point, no position, what is the evidence going to be related to? Nothing you say makes any sense.

If you would grace me with an honest, transparent answer. What is your point, your position and what is your evidence related to?(this is not an ironic response, I am truly intrigued)

1 Reply

@markx15,

markx15;68211 wrote:

If you would grace me with an honest, transparent answer. What is your point, your position and what is your evidence related to?(this is not an ironic response, I am truly intrigued)

I presume that you are refering to numpty. He has asked for proof and evidence to support My claims, but has not stated what he thinks those claims are.

1 Reply

@Seer Travis Truman,

Reply to Numpty :
OOOOOOOOOO!! Who rattled your cage?
What are you talking about?

I was refering to our discussion, not the one you are currently having Kynaston
That, in no way, is specific enough, nor do you provide a reason why I require evidence to prove anything.

Generally when you make a statement you back it up with some sort of Evidence/ Theory.
Which statement? Further, look at how many statements are made on this page. Are required to be "backed up with evidence"? No, because they do not require evidence. Not all statements require the presentment of evidence.

Then we debate it. All you have produced is opinion.
"It" is not a very specific description.

I say you have not produced any, though I am happy to look over any you produce.
Produced evidence of what?

Your original statements are what YOU WANT to happen, nothing else really.
This is too vague to answer.

You shouldn't get so uptight when people disagree with you,
I am not. I just cannot understand exactly what you are talking about, because you are so vague. You did not disagree with anything, you asked for evidence. Evidence of what we all don't know.

send you to an early grave that will.
That sentence is not structured properly, stop watching star wars videos and pretending you are yoda.

1 Reply

@JBeukema,

Send you to an early grave, he will, Numpty, following the noble work of the philosopher Manson, that enlightened expert on English and murder. The US must be an extraordinary country to live in, mustn't it? Can't you see him in his black, black suit, with a tall black hat, torturing 'witches' for the Forbidden Truth? But, fair play, he can spell Nietszche, which is more than I can!

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@JBeukema,

Quote:

I presume that you are refering to numpty. He has asked for proof and evidence to support My claims, but has not stated what he thinks those claims are.

No actually I was referring to you. I just want to understand what made you post on a debate board when you do not want to debate what you say. Here people generally back up their far-fetched ideas with facts that lead to a conclusion. You have given a great deal of conclusions, but not many facts, or in other words how you reached them. You see it seems as if you are simply spilling out something you read.

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@markx15,

No actually I was referring to you.
That is strange, but nothing inferiors do surprises Me. Numpty asks for evidence, but he does not make any point, argument, refer to any f My points etc. How am I supopsed to anwser to his vague posts? Do you know what he is talking about (do not presume numpty does, either).

I just want to understand what made you post on a debate board when you do not want to debate what you say.
I do debate what I say. The reason why I am here is for Forbidden Truth research into inferiors, and to highlight My Superiority. I am not trying to teach or help anyone.

Here people generally back up their far-fetched ideas with facts that lead to a conclusion. You have given a great deal of conclusions, but not many facts, or in other words how you reached them. You see it seems as if you are simply spilling out something you read.
I provide as and when asked for, if I see fit.

However, as you might not be aware, but numpty is, My website Home Page and the Manifesto of Forbidden Truth (which I do not run by the way) DO explain these things in detail.

In the space provided here, it is not possible to provide much detail and depth. However, I answer all posts, and all relavent Q's in them. Who else can claim that?

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A sustainable large-scale sociopolitcal structure?

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