20
   

Purpose of human life

 
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 07:45 am
@igm,
No, it doesn't work. So, apparently, you think that by just repeating your mantra, which is a lie, that everything will come out in the wash? Buddhism has not removed the causes of human suffering, period.
igm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 07:58 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

No, it doesn't work. So, apparently, you think that by just repeating your mantra, which is a lie, that everything will come out in the wash? Buddhism has not removed the causes of human suffering, period.

It does work. It is not a lie. It removes suffering, by removing the root cause; just as destroying the root of a poisonous plant destroys the whole plant with its stem, branches, leaves and any future seeds that it would of produced.

To attempt to remove one type of suffering is like removing a single leaf and expecting the poisonous plant to die... it's just replaced by another leaf or continues to grow regardless. Eventually it produces seeds which allow the continuum of the poisonous plant to outlive its own death. The same is true for suffering if the root cause is not removed.

Any questions?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 08:03 am
@igm,
More religious cant from the boy who claims Buddhism is not a religion. In two thousand years, what has Buddhism done to end hunger, disease, rape, murder, drug and alcohol addiction, war, government oppression? The answer is nothing. Inferentially, you take the line common to all religious fanatics. You blame the victim. So, for example, the woman and children who are beaten by the husband and father, and who are slowly starving to death while the substance of their food production is sent off to feed useless mouths in the local monastery, all they need to do is learn meditation techniques, and as they slowly die of the beatings and malnutrition, they can contemplate the oneness of the cosmos, and be translated to a higher plane of existence?

I long ago came to the conclusion that the Buddhists are the worst of the relgious hypocrites, the most smug, the most indifferent to human suffering.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 08:08 am
@Setanta,
I think Buddhists are just the normal kind of religious hypocrite. But I agree with you on the rest of it.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 08:11 am
@maxdancona,
The reason i call them the worst, Boss, is that they try to claim that they aren't like all the others. This particular member has claimed, as well, that Buddhism is spiritually superior. That kind of thing sticks in my craw.
igm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 08:47 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

More religious cant from the boy who claims Buddhism is not a religion. In two thousand years, what has Buddhism done to end hunger, disease, rape, murder, drug and alcohol addiction, war, government oppression? The answer is nothing. Inferentially, you take the line common to all religious fanatics. You blame the victim. So, for example, the woman and children who are beaten by the husband and father, and who are slowly starving to death while the substance of their food production is sent off to feed useless mouths in the local monastery, all they need to do is learn meditation techniques, and as they slowly die of the beatings and malnutrition, they can contemplate the oneness of the cosmos, and be translated to a higher plane of existence?
I long ago came to the conclusion that the Buddhists are the worst of the relgious hypocrites, the most smug, the most indifferent to human suffering.

Buddhism appeared in India and the people there are traditionally very religious. The Buddha taught in a way that would suit the audience that listened to them. Hence those that listened viewed the teachings as religious and those that were Hindus or from other faiths were given teachings that they could relate to.

The root cause of suffering is not to do with religion per se and so the path to removing it can be a mixture of religious actions and non-religious but in the end they go beyond religion i.e. when one nears the end of the path that puts and end to all suffering by removing its root cause.

Does anyone have any questions?
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 08:51 am
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

The reason i call them the worst, Boss, is that they try to claim that they aren't like all the others. This particular member has claimed, as well, that Buddhism is spiritually superior. That kind of thing sticks in my craw.

I am not superior to anyone. We are all equal, in that we suffer and we need to put an end to it by removing the root cause. This is the goal of Buddhism and the Buddha taught that we are fundamentally all equal.

Does anyone have any questions?
0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 08:54 am
The purpose of life is to bitch about the minutiae.

You're welcome.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 09:04 am
It's kind of difficult to find a religious group which doesn't claim it's different from all the others.

Joe(same snake-oil, same bottles, different labels)Nation
0 Replies
 
JLNobody
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 09:56 am
Igm, how can you bother to engage Setanta on this topic? It is hard enough to help an aspirant to appreciate the Buddha's teaching. But to help someone who is dead Set on misunderstanding it is an impossible task. His conception of Buddhism is so off the mark one cannot begin to Set him straight.
igm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 10:05 am
@JLNobody,
JLNobody wrote:

Igm, how can you bother to engage Setanta on this topic? It is hard enough to help an aspirant to appreciate the Buddha's teaching. But to help someone who is dead Set on misunderstanding it is an impossible task. His conception of Buddhism is so off the mark one cannot begin to Set him straight.

It's not about engaging in any particular way; it's about offering to answer questions about traditional Buddhism. I am a traditional Buddhist and I have stated that the Buddha taught that the purpose of human life is to put an end to suffering by removing its root cause.

Does anyone have any questions?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 10:48 am
Igm is lying, he has indeed said that his Buddhism is spiritually superior. JLN's snide remark notwithstanding, it's a dodge, a shell game about a religion which denies its a religion, and claims to address "the root causes" of suffering while, in fact, it doesn't do a damned thing about people's suffering. In that regard alone, it is no different than the dog and pony show upon which all religions rely. Buddhism has done nothing in two thousand years to address the "root causes" of human suffering.

As for you JLN, living in your fantasy world, i have responded directly to igm's claim that Buddhism addresses the "root causes" of human suffering--it does not. If there is any fault in that, it is not mine, but igm's, because Buddhism has never addressed the root causes of human suffering, and has never alleviated human suffering.
JLNobody
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 11:14 am
@Setanta,
I greatly admire your capacity as a historian. But your need to define (mystical) Buddhism as similar to all other religions is misguided. Granted, the popular versions of all religions--including Buddhism--make them guilty of many of your accusations. What I refer to in Buddhism is its mystical core which is what we find in the core of most universal religions: e.g.,zen in Buddhism, Sufi in Islam, Vedanta in Hinduism, Kabala in Judaism, and the mystical core of Christianity (as seen in the writings of Miester Eckhart),etc. This is what Aldous Huxley called the Perennial Philosophy, something we do not see in any popular religion. True religion is essentially esoteric, something individuals must work very hard to understand. The exoteric popular religions are candy for the masses, and--I agree--of no help in managing the existential woes (the Buddha's dukkha/suffering) of mankind.
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 12:37 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Igm is lying, he has indeed said that his Buddhism is spiritually superior.

igm wrote:

I am not superior to anyone. We are all equal, in that we suffer and we need to put an end to it by removing the root cause. This is the goal of Buddhism and the Buddha taught that we are fundamentally all equal.

Does anyone have any questions about the Buddha's teachings ?
0 Replies
 
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 12:52 pm
@igm,
igm wrote:

JLNobody wrote:

Igm, how can you bother to engage Setanta on this topic? It is hard enough to help an aspirant to appreciate the Buddha's teaching. But to help someone who is dead Set on misunderstanding it is an impossible task. His conception of Buddhism is so off the mark one cannot begin to Set him straight.

It's not about engaging in any particular way; it's about offering to answer questions about traditional Buddhism. I am a traditional Buddhist and I have stated that the Buddha taught that the purpose of human life is to put an end to suffering by removing its root cause.

Does anyone have any questions?


Ok, I'll throw my hat into this broken record of a ring. . . . what is it that YOU personally believe is the root cause of suffering.

And once you've defined that root cause, how do you purpose to end it.

You've failed time and time again to actually answer the 'questions' that people are asking. So maybe you'll answer a very direct one.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 12:57 pm
@Questioner,
Good questions; try this link for your answers. http://meditationinmadison.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=91&Itemid=115
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 01:04 pm
@cicerone imposter,
Thanks, but I want igm to answer it.
0 Replies
 
igm
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 01:18 pm
@Questioner,
The root cause of suffering is ignorance. Literally ignoring the true nature of reality. Without excluding any sentient being one develops compassion which responds to any sentient being's need to remove suffering at its root. This is done either directly or indirectly depending on the questions of the individual and their capacity to understand the answer either immediately or after some time. Wisdom is developed because compassion is impartial and grows as the true nature of reality is realized. I hope this helps.

Are there any further questions about the teachings of the Buddha (as I understand them)?
Questioner
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 01:29 pm
@igm,
igm wrote:

The root cause of suffering is ignorance. Literally ignoring the true nature of reality.


Let's start with this. You say the root cause of suffering is ignorance, or a lack of knowledge. What does that have to do with ignoring the true nature of reality, and furthermore, what do you suggest is the true nature of reality?

Quote:
Without excluding any sentient being one develops compassion which responds to any sentient being's need to remove suffering at its root.

So by not dismissing anyone's cares, worries or woes someone begins to develop compassion for others needs to . . . what, not be ignorant?

Quote:
This is done either directly or indirectly depending on the questions of the individual and their capacity to understand the answer either immediately or after some time. Wisdom is developed because compassion is impartial and grows as the true nature of reality is realized.


Doesn't wisdom develop through experience. Is that what you're suggesting the true nature of reality is . . . gaining experience?

Quote:
I hope this helps.


Sorry, not really. I was actually hoping for an answer that wasn't wrapped up so tightly in doublespeak that it could actually be understandable by someone who doesn't really buy into it all.



Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Thu 2 Feb, 2012 03:01 pm
@igm,
Of course it doesn't help. It completely fails to answer the question of why Buddhism, in two thousand years has not removed what you call the root cause of suffering. Leaving aside that your claim about the root cause of suffering is bullshit, Buddhism has done nothing in two thousand years to remove that alleged (and rather stupid) root cause of suffering.
 

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