CRIME AND PUNISHMENT

I do hope others will stop by with their thoughts and their stories. In particular, i hope that the Cunning Coney will give us the benefit of her experience.

My Sweetiepie has arrived from T.O. My apartment is a disaster area (crime). I am currently delegated to dishwashing, while she launders (punishment). I may be absent for a while.

Bookmark.

Boy - have I got stories!

Let us not forget that in many instances it is Crime, Punishment and Rehabilitation.

All grist for the mill, Ricardo, please feel free to elaborate . . .

My problem with what is happening right now in the United States -- is not so much with how we exact retribution or how we punish violators...

...but with what we consider to be crimes.

I think the entire of the "drug war" class of crimes ought to be stricken from the books by tomorrow morning at the latest.

Frank,

I probably agree with you about the Drug War crimes. But, let's see.

It would seem these offenses' codification were rooted in our society's frustration in being unable to stem the spread and the misery of drug addiction. This frustration was then politicized in an effort for elected politicians to show their "Law and Order" prowess and then used for re-election purposes.

These efforts have put many in jail for long periods of time, a punishment that stems only from normal human weakness. (I will not go into gambling and prostitution laws whose jurisdiction is selectively and geographically applied)

The drug use/addiction problem is clearly a health problem not a criminal act. Yet we see laws passed that not only take parents away from their young children but automatically deny those so accused of such assets as their homes, cars, and bank accounts (These actions are pre-trial and pre-arraignment where bail is set). These laws, designed to keep drug kingpins from fleeing prosecution are now routinely applied to Joe and Josephine six-pack merely when caught with more than a totally arbitrary amount of a specific drug.

I could go on, but perhaps I have already bored some readers. However, laws that make criminals out of normally law abiding citizens are bad law, period. Those that additionally promote some form of legal plunder and incarcerate mostly those who choose the personal freedom of private intoxication are insidious.

The 55mph speed limit law was in this class. What if that law had been strictly enforced and not just selectively used for revenue generation? What if the penalties included jail time? Given these two conditions no one would have been around to go to work and pay taxes.

Beware of laws imposed upon personal freedoms designed to "protect all of us".

JM

Bookmarking for follow-up!

Good post, JM.

James Morrison, the drug laws could be a topic on their own. They are an excellent example of entrenched beauracracy and political manipulation which have led to a worse problem complicated by all the woes you mentioned.

Just a few almost random "snippets" to wake this thread up!

In my country - Australia - there has, in recent years, been a truly obscene "auction" by political parties contesting elections as to who can be tougher on crime. This has often been in response to media frenzies in relation to particular offences - some of which were, indeed, truly horrific - but have led to populist and unthinking pronouncements of draconian measures.

At the same time, people "on the ground", as it were, have been quietly attempting to gear up for punishments that do not have a permanent negative effect on the future of the offender - ie that do not entrench them in a criminal life-style. These are things like bail hostels for people on remand awaiting trial, who cannot get full bail, but who are judged to be safe enough to continue to work - thus not destroying their lives if they are found not guilty.

Home detention is another option - where people may leave home to work - or for permitted other business, but must stay home at other times. They carry electronic transmitters.

Conferencing is another option - used in the juvenile system - I am unsure whether it has spread to the adult system yet. Here, offender, victim and other key people meet under skilled direction to discuss the crime and its impact on the victim and to arrange some form of restitution. While this can be used only for certain offences, not all, it is the single option most often cited as satisfying by victims and of possible life-changing import by offenders.

The tension, of course, in the system is always between fairness to offender, victim and community.

I have found, generally, that truly understanding an offender is a sobering experience - even where the crime has been horrific. This has proven to be so for the general public, too - at least in the course of an interesting public education system tried out here, where a large "jury", composed of interested members of the public, were first given the media reports of real cases, and asked to vote on a penalty. Draconian. They were then given the facts of the matter as the prosecution gave them. Less harsh punishment. Finally, they were given the the picture of the offender as seen by the defence - far lesser punishments.

I shall be back - but I hope this stirs the thread up!

To further elaborate my statement
Crimes, Punishment and Rehabilitation

From the Department of Justice Bureau of Prisons
Mission Statement
It is the mission of the Federal Bureau of Prisons to protect society by confining offenders in the controlled environments of prisons and community-based facilities that are safe, humane, cost-efficient, and appropriately secure, and that provide work and other self-improvement opportunities to assist offenders in becoming law-abiding citizens.
Vision Statement

The Federal Bureau of Prisons, judged by any standard, is widely and consistently regarded as a model of outstanding public administration, and as the best value provider of efficient, safe and humane correctional services and programs in America. This vision will be realized when...

The Bureau provides for public safety by assuring that no escapes and no disturbances occur in its facilities. The Bureau ensures the physical safety of all inmates through a controlled environment which meets each inmate’s need for security through the elimination of violence, predatory behavior, gang activity, drug use, and inmate weapons. Through the provision of health care, mental, spiritual, educational, vocational and work programs, inmates are well prepared for a productive and crime free return to society. The Bureau is a model of cost-efficient correctional operations and programs.

Our talented, professional, well trained, and diverse staff reflect the Bureau’s culture and treat each other fairly. Staff work in an environment free from discrimination. A positive working relationship exists where employees maintain respect for one another. The workplace is safe, and staff perform their duties without fear of injury or assault. Staff maintain high ethical standards in their day-to-day activities. Staff are satisfied with their jobs, career opportunities, recognition, and quality of leadership.

yes, Ricardo, but does it happen?

Yes it does happen not just sometimes but many times. I have met exconvicts who became preachers after serving some time.

California has a law called 3 strikes your out. Repeat offenders are given life sentence after the third offense. This eliminates the habitual offender from the state. They either serve life sentence on the third one or if they are smart, they move to another state after the second conviction.

There are those that can be rehabilitated and there are those that are hopeless case. While there are still people that can be rehabilitated the Penal System should try to continue to do so. The cost of incarceration alone is a heavy burden for the taxpayer.

Punishment itself is the Crime;

whereas there are a few mentally flawed individuals who cannot differentiate between right, and wrong, the rest of the representatives of crime are socially dammaged individuals who are 'created' by the environment in which they find themselves, through no fault of their own.
Granted there are those rugged humans who, in spite of being submerged in a maelsrom of poverty, hate, abuse, etc. still manage to tear themselves loose, and create meaningful personalities for themselves, but most people need and deserve assistance in eradicating a desolate childhood, in order to embrace the positive aspects of a just society.

Encarceration should be viewed as a 'hopitalization' of those who have had societal 'accidents'; and rather than having all social ties taken away, they should be 'reattached' to the supports of community.

For as long as there has been crime, there has been punishment of one kind or another. Each country of the world has laws and punishments unique to them.

A very interesting essay is to be found here - for those, interested in history and/or "eye-watering medieval methods":

Eye for an Eye? - Crime and Punishment in Early Modern Germany




I'm just thinking about the possibel crime to kill some children in a foreign, sovereign country ... and a may-be terrorsit and the impossible punishment for that.
And then I remember the story about that sickly, unkind, wealthy old woman, who is bound to die any day. She is said to be "simply useless" to society and thus is not contributing. Should she die, her money will be given to a monastery where it will squandered within the church. Yet on the other hand, should someone decide to end this old woman's life and take her wealth and spread it out amongst the poverty of their city, they could save hundreds, even thousands of lives that would otherwise end up in ruin and destitution, hospitals and/or closed houses.

Obviously, the situation we are given to deal with in "Crime and Punishment" is one which deals with the morality of what is the right thing to do.

And this is -IMHO- a product of society, of culture and history.